2020 Subaru Legacy 2.5, 11,065 OCI, Kirkland 0w20, Wix Filter

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I expected the high fuel. It was cold, and the car was cold and sitting before I moved it to change the oil. Before this change I used Castrol Edge for one change.


12-15-21 oil sample.jpg
 
Thanks for sharing! It's nice that all your UOAs show the viscosity staying in grade, despite a little fuel here and there. I'd be really happy with this report.

Before this change I used Castrol Edge for one change

Castrol EDGE should have around 15-20ppm Titanium in it. I don't see any Ti in any of your previous samples?
 
Castrol EDGE should have around 15-20ppm Titanium in it. I don't see any Ti in any of your previous samples?

I didn't get a uoa after using the Edge. If you look, I went went 20,000 miles after the uoa before this one.

While using Edge my oil level dropped faster. I just didn't like it as well. I can't remember exactly why. The Kirkland lasts 10,000 without needing topped off.
 
Have you been using Kirkland for the majority of those UOA’s?

They all look solid. Kirkland is blended by Warren, correct? Or whoever owns Warren nowadays. Which would mean ST, Amazon Basics, Kirkland are all similar (and I’d buy whichever is on sale or cheapest). Nice reports!
 
I’ve used Kirkland every change except that one using Castrol Edge. It was actually Edge Extended Performance.

Yes, it’s blended by Warren Distribution.
 
Looks ok to me. Seems silicon runs a tad on the higher side on the Suby? Even though it shows TBN capable, I don't think I'd stretch it longer. Just me. I think you got a good ROI here.

Couple months ago, grabbed a 12qt box of the ST FS version topic oil, same viscosity. After I did, price went from $29 and change I paid, to ~$49 and change now. Glad I did.
 
I'm admittedly on the conservative side. Pretty good UOA and Kirkland is a good oil. I worry, probably toooo much about chain wear. I would take the trends you have on this engine and look at 10k and feel comfortable as long as your driving habits do not change. But that is just me and not based on anything scientific.

Whatever you decide, please continue to post long term on your trends. That is really how we all can learn.
 
Looks fine; Fe is around 1ppm/1k miles - very desirable. The other metals are low as well. Nothing wrong here at all.
The Si is high, but isn't having an effect on the Fe wear, so that is a tad perplexing. Just keep an eye on it. Other contaminants nil.
You certainly could stretch out the OCIs, if you're interested in doing so.
 
I'm a fan of kirkland FS for the cost of 10 quart package/2 jugs on local costco started using them 2 years ago? started 23$/box,then 27box the the last price 30$/box I bought a few boxes for stock up for friends and relatives and for our 2x year oil change .By April using at least 50 quarts of it,need the cost down for them. Then Oct/Nov another set by then.Just sharing..
 
I didn't get a uoa after using the Edge. If you look, I went went 20,000 miles after the uoa before this one.

While using Edge my oil level dropped faster. I just didn't like it as well. I can't remember exactly why. The Kirkland lasts 10,000 without needing topped off.
I'd be more comfortable with a 7500 oci and no uoa money. Your vis on all the other, shorter, runs thinned to almost 0w-16. .02.
 
I don’t understand all the short oci recommendations. We are on BITOG, correct? This is an excellent uoa.

Why would I stick to 6,000 or 7,500 miles? The oil was the same thickness on a 6,500 oci as it is on longer runs. None of the wear metals are increasing relative to miles. I’m at almost 60,000 miles. I bought the car new in August of 2020. I would change oil all the time using short intervals, plus throw money away.

I always liked playing with different oils and comparing them, always looking for the best, but it’s really hard to beat this cheap oil. Even though I thought about trying Idemitsu or Motul 8100 eco-lite.
 
I don’t understand all the short oci recommendations. We are on BITOG, correct? This is an excellent uoa.

Why would I stick to 6,000 or 7,500 miles? The oil was the same thickness on a 6,500 oci as it is on longer runs. None of the wear metals are increasing relative to miles. I’m at almost 60,000 miles. I bought the car new in August of 2020. I would change oil all the time using short intervals, plus throw money away.

I always liked playing with different oils and comparing them, always looking for the best, but it’s really hard to beat this cheap oil. Even though I thought about trying Idemitsu or Motul 8100 eco-lite.

Oil consumption issues and head gasket issues are known to develop as a result of extended oil change intervals in Subaru engines and this has been the case for over a decade. Subaru has publicly acknowledged this and has even gone as far as using suggestive language in their vehicles' owner's manuals. It amazes me for all the complaining that I have constantly been hearing about online and otherwise for over a decade that people are still unable to make these connections, sometimes even refusing to acknowledge them as a possibility if not a probability.

I remember a few months ago when I was service advisor for Subaru I actually had a guy call me from a quick lube shop in Green Bay, Wisconsin asking me for advice on how to combat oil consumption issues. He said that he had normally been recommending 10,000 mile oil change intervals using 5W20 synthetic oil for his Subaru customers. I asked him why would he think that is in any way a good idea? His thought was that the oil would be just fine for that duration, perhaps it would be but what is more important? The condition of the motor oil or the condition of the motor that it is in? Yes the oil might last but have you considered the long-term negative impact that doing this may cause?

In previous years Subaru has reduced their oil change interval from 7,500 miles to 6,000 miles because these issues have developed. If you read their suggestion for the severe service interval pretty much any engine with a turbo on it will qualify and many non-turbo drivers will qualify for that severe service center role as well. Running extended intervals in a Subaru engine is penny wise but dollar foolish.
 
Oil consumption issues and head gasket issues are known to develop as a result of extended oil change intervals in Subaru engines and this has been the case for over a decade. Subaru has publicly acknowledged this and has even gone as far as using suggestive language in their vehicles' owner's manuals. It amazes me for all the complaining that I have constantly been hearing about online and otherwise for over a decade that people are still unable to make these connections, sometimes even refusing to acknowledge them as a possibility if not a probability.

I remember a few months ago when I was service advisor for Subaru I actually had a guy call me from a quick lube shop in Green Bay, Wisconsin asking me for advice on how to combat oil consumption issues. He said that he had normally been recommending 10,000 mile oil change intervals using 5W20 synthetic oil for his Subaru customers. I asked him why would he think that is in any way a good idea? His thought was that the oil would be just fine for that duration, perhaps it would be but what is more important? The condition of the motor oil or the condition of the motor that it is in? Yes the oil might last but have you considered the long-term negative impact that doing this may cause?

In previous years Subaru has reduced their oil change interval from 7,500 miles to 6,000 miles because these issues have developed. If you read their suggestion for the severe service interval pretty much any engine with a turbo on it will qualify and many non-turbo drivers will qualify for that severe service center role as well. Running extended intervals in a Subaru engine is penny wise but dollar foolish.
Ok…then why is his report perfectly fine? If the extended drain was wearing stuff out wouldn’t it show up on the report? Are we just blindly making accusations now?

It’s like claiming a patient will soon have liver failure yet their blood tests show their liver enzymes to be in perfectly normal ranges.
 
I don’t understand all the short oci recommendations. We are on BITOG, correct? This is an excellent uoa.

Why would I stick to 6,000 or 7,500 miles? The oil was the same thickness on a 6,500 oci as it is on longer runs. None of the wear metals are increasing relative to miles. I’m at almost 60,000 miles. I bought the car new in August of 2020. I would change oil all the time using short intervals, plus throw money away.

I always liked playing with different oils and comparing them, always looking for the best, but it’s really hard to beat this cheap oil. Even though I thought about trying Idemitsu or Motul 8100 eco-lite.
Exactly. I think @dnewton3 has mentioned it several times but it seems like a lot of members over-maintain their cars here. Aka change oil way before the recommended intervals.
 
Ok…then why is his report perfectly fine? If the extended drain was wearing stuff out wouldn’t it show up on the report? Are we just blindly making accusations now?

It’s like claiming a patient will soon have liver failure yet their blood tests show their liver enzymes to be in perfectly normal ranges.

Allow me to re-emphasize what I eluded to, extended oil change intervals have been known to cause issues to DEVELOP. That does not mean that the issues will happen immediately and one single UOA report after one single extended oil change interval is not indicative of anything as far as these issues are concerned.

Aside from working for Subaru I also happen to I have owned a late model Subaru Outback that developed oil consumption issues after I elected to do extended oil change intervals not to mention that I also run one of the largest and most popular Subaru enthusiast websites in the world where we have entire sections of the website dedicated specifically to head gasket issues and oil consumption issues of which there are thousands of people who have reported these issues. This is literally the most well-known issue that Subaru engines have had over the past decade, Subaru has acknowledged them and sought to address them.

I'll tell you what go ahead and run your extended drain intervals in a Subaru engine but just know that you have lost your rights to complain about issues that arise after the fact. It's like these people who do things that mess up their cars and then bring them to a mechanic all angry that something bad happened and demand that the mechanic fix it as if it's a problem that they didn't cause.
 
Explain to me how the length of an OCI has any affect on a head gasket leak????? I'm not an ASE certified expert, but I'm smart enough to say this is HIGHLY unlikely. How does a head gasket know if the oil is changed every 5k or 10k miles????

What is most likley is that the design, components, assembly of the Subaru engines are susceptible to eventual issues simply due to aging of the engine, and not the OCI duration. Old engines get external leaks due to seals aging. Old engines get internal leaks due to combustion byproducts accumulating, and aging of seals (such as valve seals).

I just love how some folks immediately blame the lube and service intervals when a problem arises, when most of the time it's simply annecdotal evidence surrounded by coincidence. (not directed to you, Ignatius, but the sources of these so-called "issues" which you are merely echoing).

I certainly would agree that an OCI that is greatly extended past the oil's ability to cope with the duration can cause issues like sludgle forming, but blaming a head gasket failure on the OCI is, IMO, simply absurd and indicates to me that the person making the claim is not thinking through the problem clearly. Just because "thousands" of people make this claim does not make it ture. They are making the jump from correlation to causation with no proof. Did it EVER occur to anyone that the issues we speak of (head gaskets, and oil consumption) are related to AGE (miles accumulated on the engine) and not OCI (miles between oil changes)???? Have any of the "thousands" of quasi-self-described experts done a detailed Red-X root cause analysis, or used some other credible methodology other than just guessing and blaming the easiest thing?

Did it occur to Surbaru that the head bolts they chose to use are fatiguing over thousands of heat cycles?
Did it cocur to Surabru that the head and/or gasket material may be affected by thousands of heat cycles and insufficient to endure the application?
Nah ... let's blame the OCIs. Never mind the fact that the circulating oil does not even touch the head bolts, and even if it did, how would the head bolts or gaskets know how long the oil has been in use ? ... Couldn't be the materials they selected or design they employ, could it?

- Am I to believe that a high mileage Subie engine has never had a head gasket failure or oil consumption issue if the OCIs are short? Never? Not one?
- Am I to believe that a high mileage Subie engine is assured to have these issues if the OCIs are long? Always?

DO NOT CONFUSE CORRELATION WITH CAUSATION !!! The coincidence of OCI and mechanical issues shoudl not be automatically linked in blame. Allow me to make emphasis in what I elude to ... the combination ignorance and rhetoric lead to bad and illogical advice.

Since you brought it up, Ignatius ... what do you do for Surbaru? Are you a corporate employeed engineer? A dealer service tech? Perhaps you can explain to me, in detail, how a head bolt or head gasket knows how long oil has been in use?
 
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Allow me to re-emphasize what I eluded to, extended oil change intervals have been known to cause issues to DEVELOP. That does not mean that the issues will happen immediately and one single UOA report after one single extended oil change interval is not indicative of anything as far as these issues are concerned.

Aside from working for Subaru I also happen to I have owned a late model Subaru Outback that developed oil consumption issues after I elected to do extended oil change intervals not to mention that I also run one of the largest and most popular Subaru enthusiast websites in the world where we have entire sections of the website dedicated specifically to head gasket issues and oil consumption issues of which there are thousands of people who have reported these issues. This is literally the most well-known issue that Subaru engines have had over the past decade, Subaru has acknowledged them and sought to address them.

I'll tell you what go ahead and run your extended drain intervals in a Subaru engine but just know that you have lost your rights to complain about issues that arise after the fact. It's like these people who do things that mess up their cars and then bring them to a mechanic all angry that something bad happened and demand that the mechanic fix it as if it's a problem that they didn't cause.
😂 Ok…where is your automotive engineering degree from?
 
Explain to me how the length of an OCI has any affect on a head gasket leak????? I'm not an ASE certified expert, but I'm smart enough to say this is HIGHLY unlikely. How does a head gasket know if the oil is changed every 5k or 10k miles????

What is most likley is that the design, components, assembly of the Subaru engines are susceptible to eventual issues simply due to aging of the engine, and not the OCI duration. Old engines get external leaks due to seals aging. Old engines get internal leaks due to combustion byproducts accumulating, and aging of seals (such as valve seals).

I just love how some folks immediately blame the lube and service intervals when a problem arises, when most of the time it's simply annecdotal evidence surrounded by coincidence. (not directed to you, Ignatius, but the sources of these so-called "issues" which you are merely echoing).

I certainly would agree that an OCI that is greatly extended past the oil's ability to cope with the duration can cause issues like sludgle forming, but blaming a head gasket failure on the OCI is, IMO, simply absurd and indicates to me that the person making the claim is not thinking through the problem clearly. Just because "thousands" of people make this claim does not make it ture. They are making the jump from correlation to causation with no proof. Did it EVER occur to anyone that the issues we speak of (head gaskets, and oil consumption) are related to AGE (miles accumulated on the engine) and not OCI (miles between oil changes)???? Have any of the "thousands" of quasi-self-described experts done a detailed Red-X root cause analysis, or used some other credible methodology other than just guessing and blaming the easiest thing?

Did it occur to Surbaru that the head bolts they chose to use are fatiguing over thousands of heat cycles?
Did it cocur to Surabru that the head and/or gasket material may be affected by thousands of heat cycles and insufficient to endure the application?
Nah ... let's blame the OCIs. Never mind the fact that the circulating oil does not even touch the head bolts, and even if it did, how would the head bolts or gaskets know how long the oil has been in use ? ... Couldn't be the materials they selected or design they employ, could it?

- Am I to believe that a high mileage Subie engine has never had a head gasket failure or oil consumption issue if the OCIs are short? Never? Not one?
- Am I to believe that a high mileage Subie engine is assured to have these issues if the OCIs are long? Always?

DO NOT CONFUSE CORRELATION WITH CAUSATION !!! The coincidence of OCI and mechanical issues shoudl not be automatically linked in blame. Allow me to make emphasis in what I elude to ... the combination ignorance and rhetoric lead to bad and illogical advice.

Since you brought it up, Ignatius ... what do you do for Surbaru? Are you a corporate employeed engineer? A dealer service tech? Perhaps you can explain to me, in detail, how a head bolt or head gasket knows how long oil has been in use?
Red x? QE detected 😆. Even a simple 5 why with some basic knowledge would help dig into the root cause. Nope instead…Blame the oil/change interval, easy.
 
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