2018 WRX - M1 0W-40 - 4,596 Mi OCI

The flashpoint has dropped considerably, indicating fuel. This is the primary driver in viscosity loss.
~2 - ~5% by GC is fairly typical for this FA20DIT engine.

@john_pifer brings up a good point about LSPI, but there are still a lot of folks running high calcium and high SAPS oils in general in Subaru DIT's. IAG Performance actually found intake valve deposit issues in this engine several years ago when they were using Motul X-Cess, and now require purchaser's of their built engines to run reduced SAPS Motul X-clean.

Not sure what is in the owner's manuals in Japan, but Subaru Japan's web site still shows API SN oils and they still allow high SAPS 0W-30 and 5W-40 in DIT's according to the site. OTOH, SoA now has a TSB describing intake valve cleaning and I've seen a couple of issues on the Forester forum in DI (non-turbo) Foresters.

But if @Palut has run M1 0W-40 since owning the car, I think any issues would've shown up by now. 🤷‍♂️ Italian tune-ups perhaps? :)
 
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~2 - ~5% by GC is fairly typical for this FA20DIT engine.

@john_pifer brings up a good point about LSPI, but there are still a lot of folks running high calcium and high SAPS oils in general in Subaru DIT's. IAG Performance actually found intake valve deposit issues in this engine several years ago when they were using Motul X-Cess, and now require purchaser's of their built engines to run reduced SAPS Motul X-clean.

Not sure what is in the owner's manuals in Japan, but Subaru Japan's web site still shows API SN oils and they still allow high SAPS 0W-30 and 5W-40 in DIT's according to the site. OTOH, SoA now has a TSB describing intake valve cleaning and I've seen a couple of issues on the Forester forum in DI (non-turbo) Foresters.

But if @Palut has run M1 0W-40 since owning the car, I think any issues would've shown up by now. 🤷‍♂️ Italian tune-ups perhaps? :)
The car does get plenty of Italian tune-ups, that's for sure.

I do have a bluetooth OBDII dongle and the Torque app, but haven't used it much since early in the car's life. Are there parameters that the ECU tracks that could be used to identify instances of LSPI?
 
depending on ambient temps a 10-40 or even 15-40 could be a better choice IMO as thinner base oils used in 0W or 5W go away faster + are more effected by fuel dilution + Ester oils are generally a better performer BUT !!! i use Redline 15-40 + 15-50 in my loose 1.8T 2001 audi TT 225 + 300 hp + TQ + see a tuned 25 lbs of boost when on it!! i am in PA but the TT roadster is rarely driven in the winter!!
 
depending on ambient temps a 10-40 or even 15-40 could be a better choice IMO as thinner base oils used in 0W or 5W go away faster + are more effected by fuel dilution + Ester oils are generally a better performer BUT !!! i use Redline 15-40 + 15-50 in my loose 1.8T 2001 audi TT 225 + 300 hp + TQ + see a tuned 25 lbs of boost when on it!! i am in PA but the TT roadster is rarely driven in the winter!!

Didn't even need to click the thread, as soon as I saw your name I knew you'd be in here hocking Redline as the ATE as always.

Amazingly, the 840HP Demon engine uses 0w-40, and that come with a warranty. This is the same for the 577HP twin-turbo V8 in the Mercedes AMG GT R, and the 640HP twin-turbo boxer 6 in the Porsche 911 Turbo S.

The OP is in good company with his lubricant of choice.
 
I excpected the viscocity to hold better over 5000 miles but if your engine is happy then no cause for concern.
I have also used M1 0/40 in my car since new although the handbook recommends 5/30.

john how can you tell or detect LSPI by just drining the car?
It typically happens in lower-RPM, higher-load situations.

For example, you’re in 6th gear at 55-60 mph, stuck behind a slow left lane driver, and you pull out to pass without downshifting, opening the throttle to about 75% or more.

With RPM only in the range of 2000-3000, when the boost comes on, cylinder pressures spike, causing a knock.

A knock, which I believe was LSPI, happened under these exact circumstances in my 2016 WRX, when I owned that car.

Over the 3 years that I owned the car, that’s the only time I remember it happening.

You’ll recognize it when it happens - youll hear a ping or knock from the engine, accompanied by a momentary loss of power.

In my case, it was minor, as I recognized the knock and immediately backed off the gas. And, from that point on, I was careful to downshift 1 or 2 gears before acceleration. But, severe cases can actually cause engine damage. In a more severe case, I would think you’d get a check engine light indicating a knock.

Best practices to avoid LSPI are to always use a good quality top-tier premium fuel, and avoid getting into the boost in high-load, low-RPM situations, which spike cylinder pressures and create the conditions under which LSPI can occur.

These are really best practices in any engine. It’s always easier on the engine to downshift and let it turn some RPM to accelerate, rather than lugging it.

When I had my 2016, I used Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30, a thinner 30W that has an excellent Noack rating, and, with lower amounts of viscosity-modifying polymer, held up pretty well against the shear in the boxer engine. However, as @OVERKILL pointed out, most viscosity loss in these engines is as a result of fuel contamination due to the DI system.

I think if I ever got another one, I’d use M1 ESP 5W-30 or Motul 8100 X-Clean+ 5W-30. They’re a little more money, and typically aren’t available on the shelf at Walmart, but have low SAPS and very good Noack ratings (volatility). And, they have HTHS ratings of around 3.5, for good protection during those times that you’re doing your “Italian tune-ups” ;)
 
Are there parameters that the ECU tracks that could be used to identify instances of LSPI?
I'm not familiar with it. An Accessport might, I'm not sure. Here's some more info on LSPI.


Generally, LSPI is only an issue with smaller displacement engines under 2.0L. Subaru did have a reflash for the 2.0DIT a few years ago that was related to possible damage from "pre-ignition".

Under certain high engine load driving conditions, spark knock can occur which results in elevated cylinder temperatures and pressures. Over time, excessive erosion of the spark plugs and possible damage to the pistons can be consequences of continued operation with these conditions present.


Just did some searching on google and found the following on Cobb's site in regards to the F150, but nothing similar under Subaru.

Knock Octane Modifier (KOM) - A learned multiplier for ignition timing where optimal numbers are +1, and -1 will indicate less than optimal settings or fueling. The value will also impact other strategies like Low Speed Preignition (LSPI). Those familiar with other EcoBoost Fords will see strong similarites between KOM and OAR - KOM simply acts as an inverted OAR.
 
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This is great discussion about LSPI. I use premium Top Tier fuel and do my best to avoid conditions that might induce LSPI, and have never experienced any audible knock. I'm going to have to look through the Torque app and see what parameters I can monitor that might help identify anything like that. It's a third party app designed for Subarus that pulls ECU data from any generic OBDII plug.

Thank you all for your thoughts, they are greatly appreciated.
 
The car comes with an oil/coolant heat exchanger, but I've used M1 0W-40 for its entire life. I guess it could be within the normal lab margin of error.

Thank you for your oil recommendation. I just checked the data sheet for Delvac 5W-40 and was surprised at how much thicker it is, especially at colder temperatures. I guess I shouldn't have been, it is 5W vs 0W.

I like starting with a relatively thin 40 weight and ending up with a nice 30 weight (though not shearing at all would be better), and really appreciate the improved low temperature flow. It seems like it's really the viscosity sweet spot for my engine and driving conditions.
I wasn’t referring to Delvac, but 5W40 FS. To me 5W40FS looks like thicker version of 0W40. Some 20% of PAO, 40-50% GTL , probably some Esters like 0W40. Also available in Wal Mart.
IMO any reputable 5W oil will do good in lower 48 in winter. I would not worry about that.
 
This is great discussion about LSPI. I use premium Top Tier fuel and do my best to avoid conditions that might induce LSPI, and have never experienced any audible knock. I'm going to have to look through the Torque app and see what parameters I can monitor that might help identify anything like that. It's a third party app designed for Subarus that pulls ECU data from any generic OBDII plug.

Thank you all for your thoughts, they are greatly appreciated.

quencher​

The most widely reported LSPI quencher additive type is zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP). However, the phosphorus constraints imposed in lubricant specifications to protect three-way catalyst (TWC) equipment make it unrealistic to use high levels of ZDDP to reduce LSPI.

Infineum increased the phosphorus level from 0.05% to 0.19% in the test oil. ZDDP has an exponential decrease in LSPI activity - higher levels of ZDDP reduced over 90% of LSPI events compared to the number that occurred with the 0.05% ZDDP oil, confirming ZDDP as an LSPI quencher.






Keep using the Mobil1 fs 0w-40👍
 

quencher​

The most widely reported LSPI quencher additive type is zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP). However, the phosphorus constraints imposed in lubricant specifications to protect three-way catalyst (TWC) equipment make it unrealistic to use high levels of ZDDP to reduce LSPI.

Infineum increased the phosphorus level from 0.05% to 0.19% in the test oil. ZDDP has an exponential decrease in LSPI activity - higher levels of ZDDP reduced over 90% of LSPI events compared to the number that occurred with the 0.05% ZDDP oil, confirming ZDDP as an LSPI quencher.






Keep using the Mobil1 fs 0w-40👍
It is known for some time. But, on other hand it showed to have negative effects on timing chain guides.
Mobil1 0W40, Castrol 0W40, pretty much any MB229.5 oil except Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 has Zinc in 1000-1100ppm range.
 
One of a few best common motor oils...I would take exception to the Phos/Zinc level so low.
 
John I just read your post about the knocking/pinging. And my stock 2013 Tacoma 4.0 does just that. Lol. I've had the TSB for spark knock done to it. I still hear it occasionally during the situations that you described. I mostly use 93 octane to limit it from happening. The TSB has definitely helped. I was overdo for the TSB, but Toyota did the flash for free. Which was nice. 🙂
It typically happens in lower-RPM, higher-load situations.

For example, you’re in 6th gear at 55-60 mph, stuck behind a slow left lane driver, and you pull out to pass without downshifting, opening the throttle to about 75% or more.

With RPM only in the range of 2000-3000, when the boost comes on, cylinder pressures spike, causing a knock.

A knock, which I believe was LSPI, happened under these exact circumstances in my 2016 WRX, when I owned that car.

Over the 3 years that I owned the car, that’s the only time I remember it happening.

You’ll recognize it when it happens - youll hear a ping or knock from the engine, accompanied by a momentary loss of power.

In my case, it was minor, as I recognized the knock and immediately backed off the gas. And, from that point on, I was careful to downshift 1 or 2 gears before acceleration. But, severe cases can actually cause engine damage. In a more severe case, I would think you’d get a check engine light indicating a knock.

Best practices to avoid LSPI are to always use a good quality top-tier premium fuel, and avoid getting into the boost in high-load, low-RPM situations, which spike cylinder pressures and create the conditions under which LSPI can occur.

These are really best practices in any engine. It’s always easier on the engine to downshift and let it turn some RPM to accelerate, rather than lugging it.

When I had my 2016, I used Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30, a thinner 30W that has an excellent Noack rating, and, with lower amounts of viscosity-modifying polymer, held up pretty well against the shear in the boxer engine. However, as @OVERKILL pointed out, most viscosity loss in these engines is as a result of fuel contamination due to the DI system.

I think if I ever got another one, I’d use M1 ESP 5W-30 or Motul 8100 X-Clean+ 5W-30. They’re a little more money, and typically aren’t available on the shelf at Walmart, but have low SAPS and very good Noack ratings (volatility). And, they have HTHS ratings of around 3.5, for good protection during those times that you’re doing your “Italian tune-ups” ;)
 
John I just read your post about the knocking/pinging. And my stock 2013 Tacoma 4.0 does just that. Lol. I've had the TSB for spark knock done to it. I still hear it occasionally during the situations that you described. I mostly use 93 octane to limit it from happening. The TSB has definitely helped. I was overdo for the TSB, but Toyota did the flash for free. Which was nice. 🙂
That’s interesting. I haven’t heard of any severe ping/knock problems on the 1GR-FE Toyota V6.

I own a 2007 Tacoma with the same engine, and I’ve occasionally (rarely) noticed some light pinging on acceleration in high gear on an uphill grade, which I’ve attributed to some poor quality fuel.

We should also clarify here that LSPI (low-speed pre-ignition) is only a possibility with small-displacement forced-induction engines.

My Taco gets a steady diet of 87 octane with no issues.

Is that an issue only with the 2013 models?
 
That’s interesting. I haven’t heard of any severe ping/knock problems on the 1GR-FE Toyota V6.

I own a 2007 Tacoma with the same engine, and I’ve occasionally (rarely) noticed some light pinging on acceleration in high gear on an uphill grade, which I’ve attributed to some poor quality fuel.

We should also clarify here that LSPI (low-speed pre-ignition) is only a possibility with small-displacement forced-induction engines.

My Taco gets a steady diet of 87 octane with no issues.

Is that an issue only with the 2013 models?
2012-2015 Tacoma's are in the TSB. I guess LSPI isn't what I was experiencing. But it was pinging non the less. Here's a link about the TSB on Tacomaworld. https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/t-sb-0044-14-feedback-engine-ecm-reprogram-pinging.337705/
 
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