2018+ coyote loose clearances warrants a thicker oil?

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Originally Posted by advocate
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by AP9
Just a new reincarnation of a tired old myth.


Indeed.


How do you guys say this? It surely doesn't add to the post. Do you have experience in building 2018 coyotes? Several of the top engine builders have states that the clearances - specifically the rod side tonside clearance is too big. Which causes a sporadic tick. This is an oil forum and I'm trying to discuss some options that may help people out.



What do engine builders know anything about lubrication? The same 'experts" recommend using higher ZDDP levels in oils which were not used when the engine was new. When the builder you reference manufacturers, designs, engineers, and produces engines millions of engines at cost with a less then 2% failure I will believe their huey then.
 
Originally Posted by advocate
How do you guys say this? It surely doesn't add to the post. Do you have experience in building 2018 coyotes? Several of the top engine builders have states that the clearances - specifically the rod side to side clearance is too big. Which causes a sporadic tick. This is an oil forum and I'm trying to discuss some options that may help people out.


Couple of interesting threads.

Excessive rod side clearance - See Post #30.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/pp2-down-for-the-count.114796/

Damaged journal bearings - See the video and other linked threads.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/how-excessive-is-this-rod.108361/
 
Originally Posted by advocate
... Would a thicker oil help with this engine that seems to have been built on the loose side from the factory? Would a 30 or even a 40 grade help to alleviate some of these looser tolerances?
...
Thoughts?


Assuming there is a real problem ...
It would have been a good question to ask the person (MPR racing?) on the video. Maybe he can offer some solutions! it is a long video, I just watched couple of minutes ... Maybe he has a simple solution.

Typically when people are very knowledgeable about a problem, they may offer some solutions from the least expensive (e.g. oil change) to the most expensive (new egine/car) and everything inbetween (repairs?) ...

If you really trust their judgement, go to the source ... may not be a bad idea to call/email them while waiting for the bitog experts!
 
Originally Posted by Imp4
Ugh, really?!?!?

"They've loosened up the tolerances...."

For heaven's sake!!!!


Just like an old Mosin Nagant during the end of WWII.
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by advocate
How do you guys say this? It surely doesn't add to the post. Do you have experience in building 2018 coyotes? Several of the top engine builders have states that the clearances - specifically the rod side to side clearance is too big. Which causes a sporadic tick. This is an oil forum and I'm trying to discuss some options that may help people out.



Couple of interesting threads.

Excessive rod side clearance - See Post #30.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/pp2-down-for-the-count.114796/

Damaged journal bearings - See the video and other linked threads.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/how-excessive-is-this-rod.108361/




This is exactly what I'm talking about. I think I'll move up to a 0w-30 next change on the one truck. It won't hurt it that's for sure. These engines can do anything from a 20 grade to a 50 grade in reality. I'm thinking that a 30 grade may be a better fit though based on all of this.
 
^^^ A lot of guys run 5W-30 in their Coyotes all year round with no ill effects. I think 5W-30 is better suited for the Coyote than 5w-20.
 
Originally Posted by advocate
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by advocate
How do you guys say this? It surely doesn't add to the post. Do you have experience in building 2018 coyotes? Several of the top engine builders have states that the clearances - specifically the rod side to side clearance is too big. Which causes a sporadic tick. This is an oil forum and I'm trying to discuss some options that may help people out.



Couple of interesting threads.

Excessive rod side clearance - See Post #30.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/pp2-down-for-the-count.114796/

Damaged journal bearings - See the video and other linked threads.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/how-excessive-is-this-rod.108361/




This is exactly what I'm talking about. I think I'll move up to a 0w-30 next change on the one truck. It won't hurt it that's for sure. These engines can do anything from a 20 grade to a 50 grade in reality. I'm thinking that a 30 grade may be a better fit though based on all of this.



If you believe there is something mechanically happening were that condition is, then you should realize if that is the case mechanical shearing will be happening in that spot. As long and you aren't in an area that gets lower then -20f, I'd say go to 5w30 PUP, maybe add lubeguard's biotech boost oil soluble moly level a couple hundred points. If that quiets it, boom you have your combo. If you do so and aren't happy with the results, at that point try 5w30 redline. Also, biotech is something you can just toss in what you have now as well.
 
I've considered even pyb 5w-30 as it already has a high dose of moly and boron. But then I'm not sure as everyone seems to be on the train of higher quality base stocks and the new dexos ratings for timing chain wear amongst other things.
 
Early build 2018 No clicking or ticking or BBQing here.

Just hit 20,000 miles. Use dealership oil which is Mobil blend I believe. I drive 100 miles a day mostly interstate 5-6 days per week. I never track the car but I don't baby it at all.

Engine has purred since day 1. Are people hearing the new Direct Injection system and thinking something is wrong with the engine? The DI injectors and fuel pump can be quite noisy.
 
I hope the Ford plasma coatings hold up. They certainly don't in my world. I'm right in the middle of an unnecessary $2,7M repair due to failed coatings. I trust Nikasil. I don't trust plasma coatings, they tend to be hard, inflexible and expand at different rates than the base it's sprayed on to.
 
Originally Posted by Cujet
I hope the Ford plasma coatings hold up. They certainly don't in my world. I'm right in the middle of an unnecessary $2,7M repair due to failed coatings. I trust Nikasil. I don't trust plasma coatings, they tend to be hard, inflexible and expand at different rates than the base it's sprayed on to.




The fact that most engines are aluminum these days would support that theory. How much does Ford really save going this route and count in the warranty jobs versus using iron liners?
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
The fact that most engines are aluminum these days would support that theory. How much does Ford really save going this route and count in the warranty jobs versus using iron liners?

I don't understand what you're saying? Yes, most blocks are aluminum but very few are linerless.

Properly constructed linerless blocks are reliable, my old Alusil M60 engine is testimony to that. The old Nikasil would have been too depending on the gasoline used, it wasn't mechanically unstable.
 
Ford is also planning, or alread has, implemented rebuilding engines, renewed to new with the plasma spray process. Eliminates the need for oversized pistons and rings.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by PimTac
The fact that most engines are aluminum these days would support that theory. How much does Ford really save going this route and count in the warranty jobs versus using iron liners?

I don't understand what you're saying? Yes, most blocks are aluminum but very few are linerless.

Properly constructed linerless blocks are reliable, my old Alusil M60 engine is testimony to that. The old Nikasil would have been too depending on the gasoline used, it wasn't mechanically unstable.




I was focusing on the theory or fact that the plasma coating is hard and perhaps doesn't work well with a aluminum block that expands and contracts. A iron liner would not have those kinds of issues. The specific coating involved may be the problem, not all coatings.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by PimTac
The fact that most engines are aluminum these days would support that theory. How much does Ford really save going this route and count in the warranty jobs versus using iron liners?

I don't understand what you're saying? Yes, most blocks are aluminum but very few are linerless.

Properly constructed linerless blocks are reliable, my old Alusil M60 engine is testimony to that. The old Nikasil would have been too depending on the gasoline used, it wasn't mechanically unstable.




A iron liner would not have those kinds of issues.


They did when they were new, absolutely. Coatings are not perfect now but they are not going anywhere, they'll figure it out.
 
I've decided that I'm going to give Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 a try for my truck. Just seems more suited. Sn Plus. D1G2. Decent amount of moly and boron. But I have about 20% to use up on my oil life monitor left. So it will be a bit. I'll be using a Fram Ultra like always.
 
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