2018+ coyote loose clearances warrants a thicker oil?

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https://youtu.be/oBcYKKDybqk

Fast forward to about 11:28 for info on the now infamous 2018+ tick and looser clearances on this line of engines. Mustangs get 10 quarts of 20 grade and f150's get 9 quarts. Would a thicker oil help with this engine that seems to have been built on the loose side from the factory? Would a 30 or even a 40 grade help to alleviate some of these looser tolerances?

I know that most tend to have a bit of a consumption issue when new. And most seem to have a tick, some worst then others. They also seem to be a little harder on oil. Most uoa's that I've looked at ended up on the lower end of the 20 grade spectrum.

Thoughts?
 
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If you watch the video they do not have "loose clearances". The tick problem comes from excessive aluminium block expansion with heat and thin cylinder liners leading to cracked liners. The newer engines have thicker liners, like the ones they are installing in the video, and closing the piston to liner clearances. According to the video this is not a problem for street engines. The problem comes in when going past 550 hp and/or 25 lbs of boost. Oil is not going to fix any of these issues (if they exist).
 
This has been heard from several engine builders, its not news anymore. We are learning more about these new engines all the time. But they are a complete redesign from the last gen. Spray bore liners are seeming to be the biggest issue that people worry about. But the few that have built 2018 engines with proper specs for clearances do not have the typewriter tick that the rest of us have. In the ford workshop the allowed clearances are in the range of 0.002", Which is a nice fit for a 30-40 grade oil.
 
The Coyote clearances fall in at right around 0.002" nominal so a 30W or 40W oil is a good fit for this engine with a 2" connecting rod journal. That puts oil clearance right at 0.001" per inch of journal diameter as recommended by bearing manufacturers and engine builders across the industry. Generally speaking an engine that should be using a 20W oil is engineered with rod bearing clearances closer to 0.0005" per inch of journal diameter. This would put the coyote at 0.001" on the connecting rods which is lower than the tightest spec of the engine.
 
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
If you watch the video they do not have "loose clearances". The tick problem comes from excessive aluminium block expansion with heat and thin cylinder liners leading to cracked liners. The newer engines have thicker liners, like the ones they are installing in the video, and closing the piston to liner clearances. According to the video this is not a problem for street engines. The problem comes in when going past 550 hp and/or 25 lbs of boost. Oil is not going to fix any of these issues (if they exist).



The new ones do not have traditional liners like they used to have. They have thinner liners that are sprayed on. And while they have been proven to hold big power it's not really what I'm asking here. In the video they say that the block really grows with heat. It would have been better to be built "tight" to not have as much of a difference. But ford ended up building them a little on the looser side. So when they get hot they are even looser. Which is where a lot of these noises are coming from. So would a thicker oil - to fill in these bigger gaps help for longevity and noise?

Figured it would be a bit different then the thick vs thin typical thread. This is a little different. If you check the forums, YouTube, Facebook etc all you see is people going crazy over the bbq tick or typewriter tick that these new engines have. People are getting new engines and cams and phasers etc trying to fix these under warranty and they end up with the noise coming back. Built engines do not have the noise. Guys using additives like ceratec do not have the noise.
 
Search Hemi tick, follow science not a bunch of guys on the internet. Look for dense oil that can take heat =esters, stable branched chain lubrication= pao, additives such as moly that coefficient of friction is cut in half with 700ppm, zddp and phos, and yes viscosity can be part of the answer, maybe other things as well suck as titanium. Nobody in this forum except guys who get hemi tick or coyote tick care enough to take it seriously, so you get what you just got in this thread, a bunch of guys eating popcorn. Yes, Coyote tick and hemi tick are two completely different things, and the things I've said are less successful at quieting it then they are with hemi tick. We have had guys with coyote tick join up cross members with hemi forums, it is just a hard thing to deal with lubrication wise. One thing for sure, it doesn't hurt to try, you have to change the oil once in a while anyhow, why not use an oil that has a lot of science in the formula that addresses serious metal to metal contact. I will contact a couple of the guys with coyote tick and touch base with them, I'll PM you if I find something that may be helpful. gl
 
OP this is from the owner of Gotexhaust his name is Nick, it appears the formula is helping some of them. His reply...

..... but I am trying to help another community. The Mustang 5.0 Coyote community. They have a tick like the Hemi and as some oils like Red Line do help it is not fixing all of them.....

Then I asked the cause his reply...

....Yes, it is usually a lifter but in some cases it has been a bearing. Its known as the Coyote tick or Coyote BBQ tick because it can sound like a BBQ igniter lol....

So those were from Nick, clearly it is harder to nail down causation, and I think if it's the bearing you will have less luck with lubrication then the lifter.

Worth a shot? If you try it and it helps or doesn't, update the hemi tick thread of you don't mind. We have a good baseline on the % that hearty lubrication helps hemi tick, but hardly any info on lubrication helping coyote tick. Redline is just a brand, I'm pretty sure clone oils such as Motul will behave similarly. Not saying which is the clone, God knows wouldn't want to give anyone ammo to argue, but look at those types of formulas would be a decent strategy or not, gl.
 
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No it wont help Ebola which I was accused of suggesting it would. Just trying to share what has been happening with a group near 50 hemis over now 8 plus years.
 
I was skeptical of this 2018 plasma liner business as soon as i read about it. Never trade durability for a weight savings in an engine.
 
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by AP9
Just a new reincarnation of a tired old myth.


Indeed.


How do you guys say this? It surely doesn't add to the post. Do you have experience in building 2018 coyotes? Several of the top engine builders have states that the clearances - specifically the rod side tonside clearance is too big. Which causes a sporadic tick. This is an oil forum and I'm trying to discuss some options that may help people out.
 
I'm guessing the only thing that will cure this tick is Redline in a 40 grade. Sooner or later someone will broach this idea. I figured I would Prime the conversation.

The cure would be to make a engine that runs smoothly without ticks. Obviously Fiat and Ford need help here.

Pardon me while I put on my asbestos coveralls.
 
Originally Posted by burla
Search Hemi tick, follow science not a bunch of guys on the internet. Look for dense oil that can take heat =esters, stable branched chain lubrication= pao, additives such as moly that coefficient of friction is cut in half with 700ppm, zddp and phos, and yes viscosity can be part of the answer, maybe other things as well suck as titanium. Nobody in this forum except guys who get hemi tick or coyote tick care enough to take it seriously, so you get what you just got in this thread, a bunch of guys eating popcorn. Yes, Coyote tick and hemi tick are two completely different things, and the things I've said are less successful at quieting it then they are with hemi tick. We have had guys with coyote tick join up cross members with hemi forums, it is just a hard thing to deal with lubrication wise. One thing for sure, it doesn't hurt to try, you have to change the oil once in a while anyhow, why not use an oil that has a lot of science in the formula that addresses serious metal to metal contact. I will contact a couple of the guys with coyote tick and touch base with them, I'll PM you if I find something that may be helpful. gl


Thanks Burla! I appreciate it! The odd thing is that some (myself included) are having good luck using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in various grades. I'm using their 0w-20 right now and mine is more quiet then others that I've heard. I have two of these 2018 5.0's. One will get its oil changed at the dealer when the iolm says to change it. And one will be changed at home with some good oil and a Fram Ultra. So I'll have a good comparison of them. One is short tripped and garage stored. One is driven hard and parked outside in the cold. Time will tell on these new engines... I sure hope they last cause they sure are fun and efficient!
 
The ticking Coyote engine is a very hot topic on Mustang6G. The Gen3 Coyote (2018+) with the spray in cylinder liner has a new "2000 RPM rattle" which some believe is excessive piston to cylinder clearance which caused piston slap/rattle that just happens to resonate at around 2000 RPM. Some guys have reported "scored" cylinders in Gen3 Coyotes.

Guys with the "BBQ tick" at idle have had good luck curing it with Ceratec anti-friction additive, but Ceratec doesn't seem to help the 2000 RPM rattle on the Gen3 Coyote.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/forums/issues-repairs-warranty-tsb-recalls.102/
 
Originally Posted by burla
Look for dense oil that can take heat =esters, stable branched chain lubrication= pao, additives such as moly that coefficient of friction is cut in half with 700ppm, zddp and phos, and yes viscosity can be part of the answer, maybe other things as well suck as titanium.

+1.
If I may, including Boron as well .
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
The ticking Coyote engine is a very hot topic on Mustang6G. The Gen3 Coyote (2018+) with the spray in cylinder liner has a new "2000 RPM rattle" which some believe is excessive piston to cylinder clearance which caused piston slap/rattle that just happens to resonate at around 2000 RPM. Some guys have reported "scored" cylinders in Gen3 Coyotes.

Guys with the "BBQ tick" at idle have had good luck curing it with Ceratec anti-friction additive, but Ceratec doesn't seem to help the 2000 RPM rattle on the Gen3 Coyote.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/forums/issues-repairs-warranty-tsb-recalls.102/


Oddly enough this rattle was fixed on the F150 side of things. I had the latest tsb done for this and the rattle is gone completely... the mustangs didn't get the fix yet. Nor did the new 2.7 and 3.5 ecoboosts in the f150 which have a very similar rattle. Ceratec seems like the hot ticket these days to alleviate this issue. But it's pricey where I am. And I hear it makes the oil look really funky. So if there were an issue where you needed to use your warranty it make stick out like a sore thumb.

I know the guys who have supercharged or turboed their new 5.0's have moved up to a 40 or 50 grade oil to handle the extra heat and stress. Some have still had be tick come back though.
 
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