2017 Tundra, 5.7L, 1,000 miles, Factory Fill 0W-20

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All,

Just for thrills, I had a UOA on my 2017 Toyota Tundra 5.7L V8 performed. I expected to see elevated copper, which comes from the oil coolor, and elevated Silicon, which comes from the sealers Toyota uses.

 
Trav -

Yes, it has factory-installed towing package, with engine oil cooler. That is where I think the copper is coming from. I have seen this before on Tundras and Tacomas with the Towing package.
 
100% that's where its coming from. I don't know whats up with Blackstone with this brass and bronze nonsense, the other metals used in their composition are not elevated.
Bronze is 12% tin your tin levels are not spiked, brass is 34-45% zinc for gears and an old school brass distributor gear would be the only place I can think of that brass would be used in an engine with a aftermarket performance cam but most were bronze as are some valve guides.

Copper from bearing shells would show elevated lead levels also but AFAIK your engine uses aluminum shells. copper from cooler can show up in UOA's for a very long time but if your not seeing elevated tin levels is not from inside the engine from a bushing or guide.
 
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Castrol?
Odd, its more Titanium than Castrol usually uses, and less than Kendall. Maybe there is actually some Titanium in the engine somewhere shedding???
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Isn't there a titanium coating of some sort being used in modern engines now?
I did hear about that a while back. Like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride


Titanium nitride coatings are used in wear areas in an ICE? And if it is, and that's what's wearing off then it isn't working too well.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Titanium nitride coatings are used in wear areas in an ICE? And if it is, and that's what's wearing off then it isn't working too well.

Yes, titanium-nitride (TN) coatings are appearing in some engines. Basically anywhere DLC or chromium nitride coatings are used (wrist pins, rings, valve guides, etc.), an engine maker can choose TN as an option.

I'm not sure which engines have it currently. Engine Builder magazine: "Titanium nitride and Chromium nitride create a hard wear-resistance layer that helps valves and lifters hold up better in demanding applications. Diamond-like carbon is another coating material that is often used in high end racing for added wear-resistance and durability, but it’s more expensive than most other processes." Who knows which engines might be using this? I don't.

Not working very well, as you say?? Possible. More likely that some loose particles are on the initial micron or two of the coating on new engines. Break-in. Just like sometimes extra copper, iron, etc. shows up in a UOA on FF oil.
 
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Titanium is rare of in stock off the lot engines (not including exotics and some high performance stuff), the aftermarket offers a wide range of internal components made from titanium. Teflon and more recently polymers are the most common coating found in today's engines, it can be found on piston skirts and main/rod bearings.

Silicon is another thing Blackstone often gets carried away with, they fail take into account some of the engines uses silicon infused unlined aluminum bores, the silicon particles are .00002˝ to .00004˝ above the aluminum itself, this is what the rings "ride" on. Some of these particles get worn slightly and can show up in a UOA especially when the engine is new, yet they always seem to claim its dirt from a iffy air filter or silicone sealer.
This is interesting..

Mahle
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Titanium is rare of in stock off the lot engines (not including exotics and some high performance stuff), the aftermarket offers a wide range of internal components made from titanium.
Since its a new 2017 model, we don't know what Toyota is using. They keep some things a proprietary secret for a while, though word gets out eventually.

Originally Posted By: Trav
Teflon and more recently polymers are the most common coating found in today's engines, it can be found on piston skirts and main/rod bearings.
I see engine makers using "break-in" coatings inside engines, especially on the piston skirts, which allows them to score higher on EPA CAFE FTP tests. Mild cheating. Open secret there. Engine friction rises as the frangible coatings wear off in a few thousand miles!

Originally Posted By: Trav
Silicon is another thing Blackstone often gets carried away with, they fail take into account some of the engines uses silicon infused unlined aluminum bores, the silicon particles are .00002˝ to .00004˝ above the aluminum itself, this is what the rings "ride" on. Some of these particles get worn slightly and can show up in a UOA especially when the engine is new, yet they always seem to claim its dirt from a iffy air filter or silicone sealer.
"Alusil" unlined cylinder bores aren't used on BMWs anymore since they went all-turbos, now they line or coat all cyl bores with iron. I'm not sure who uses unlined cylinders these days, kind of rare???

Trav, your Mahle link should be a thread of its own. Cool start-stop stuff in there.
 
Thanks Trav for that Mahle link as well. Interesting stuff. When I read the part about using aluminum flakes in the polymer coating for heat conduction, I was reminded of a few threads recently where people were finding tiny metallic flakes in the used oil. Could be?
 
Nikasil is pretty much done but some later engines are using hypoeutectic aluminum engine blocks, MB V6, V8 are using liners made from it, Porsche and Ferrari have used it for years, the GSXR1300 uses it and a long list of others, B&S non commercial small engines use it.
Toyota was doing something with this material but I have no idea what the status of it is today. Its use is becoming more common place on Euro engines.

Moly dry spray coated piston skirts are common for break in but short lived the Teflon/moly last longer. Something you might be interested in. Good discussion.
thumbsup2.gif



https://www.google.com/patents/US5255433

Nikasil Alusil

http://www.namura.com/pistons
 
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