2017 PSD motorcraft 10w30

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Sample time is 175 hours, 5700 miles. Filter was a Baldwin B7379. A lot of towing through the mountains with high RPM engine braking, also mixed in with several short trips where engine barely gets up to temp. This truck also has a good amount of idle time (wife and kids like the ac while running errands). Iron might be a little high at 2.6-2.7PPM/1000 miles but given the service it sees I’m not surprised. The silicon is likely from recent upper oil pan resealed, they used a copious amount of silicone by the look of it (excessive amounts hanging outside the pan). The sample was taken on a cold engine, mid way through the drain. Not sure if that has anything to do with fuel dilution or not, but it doesn’t seem to be hurting anything. I use optilube XDP and hot shots LX4 additives every fill up for fueI, so it’s nice to see soot nice and low at 0.3%. I refilled with HPL 5w40 premium cold weather and also a dual bypass oil filtration system with amsoil EAO26 and EaBP100 filters. I hope to get 20K miles out of this new setup, I’m just concerned about my winter short trips are really going to hurt the fuel dilution, it will likely take me 2 winters to get to that mileage There’s no way around it unfortunately.

Does anyone feel the viscosity is where it should be given the fuel dilution/oxidation? @dnewton3
 

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10.6 cst is lower on the scale but i think it held up fine all things considered. i think itll do fine with the dilution.

And yeah that bypass setup is nice. I believe there's a guy who recently posted a uoa of delo xsp with 20k intervals on his 6.7 psd with a tbn of 5 and bit of dilution but he does a lot of highway.
 
To clarify there was no winter use on this sample. This fill was put in around begininng of April of this year. I programmed in On command regen with the IDS (did not have factory option) with active regen inhibit so if I am not going somewhere where I know at least 30 min of highway driving to complete the regen I can lock it out and do stationary, which I probably do 60% of the time.
 
Looks like Silicon is high in addition to fuel. What is up with the Silicon? The PSD has a large air filter.
The silicon is from the upper oil pan reseal right before this fill. I checked the air filter when I serviced the truck and it was still serviceable but replaced it anyway.

I’m not surprised by the fuel due to the use it sees, but I also questioned whether cold sampling effected that reading also. I kind of expected the viscosity to be lower than what it was for that much fuel so I question it a little bit.
 
I don't know that cold sampling would affect the fuel content (I presume by "cold" you mean the engine had not been running for many hours).

I've often wondered how the fuel content of the modern diesel UOAs is affected by the relationship of the last regen event relative to the UOA sample date. In other words, if a regen was recent, will that affect the UOA and if so, how much so, relative to events that were less recent? With gas motors, the gasoline can vaporize off fairly easily if you get a good heat-soak drive; several short trips might load gasoline into the lube, but one good long drive gas burn it off, so to speak. But with diesel, I'm not sure how much the accumulation has a longer lasting effect. I don't have any data to really substantiate any kind of correlation; just always curious whether there's any kind of symbiotic thing going on?

As for the UOA wear, it looks all good. Fe is tracking with the hard use; pretty much in line with what we'd expect to see, and that's good. The other metals are at or near zilch; also very good.

I'll be interested to see how the long OCIs play out; keep them coming!
 
I don't know that cold sampling would affect the fuel content (I presume by "cold" you mean the engine had not been running for many hours).

I've often wondered how the fuel content of the modern diesel UOAs is affected by the relationship of the last regen event relative to the UOA sample date. In other words, if a regen was recent, will that affect the UOA and if so, how much so, relative to events that were less recent? With gas motors, the gasoline can vaporize off fairly easily if you get a good heat-soak drive; several short trips might load gasoline into the lube, but one good long drive gas burn it off, so to speak. But with diesel, I'm not sure how much the accumulation has a longer lasting effect. I don't have any data to really substantiate any kind of correlation; just always curious whether there's any kind of symbiotic thing going on?

As for the UOA wear, it looks all good. Fe is tracking with the hard use; pretty much in line with what we'd expect to see, and that's good. The other metals are at or near zilch; also very good.

I'll be interested to see how the long OCIs play out; keep them coming!

I’ll be taking my baseline sample shortly and I had a regen about 150 miles ago with this new oil so we will see.
 
I see you’re using 2 fuel additives. Why??? This is ridiculous.

Some diesel fuel additives are solvent based, like stanadyne PF. Solvent based additives are harsh and no bueno.

These solvents are going to cause more oil thinning from fuel dilution than diesel #2 by itself.
 
Optilube has been a around for a long time as a fuel additive. It has a proven track record. The LX4 is for added lubricity only.

This UOA shows no ill effect with with 5% fuel @10.6 cSt

What proof do you have to support your claim it will worsen fuel dilution?
 
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Optilube has been a around for a long time as a fuel additive. It has a proven track record. The LX4 is for added lubricity only.

This UOA shows no ill effect with with 5% fuel @10.6 cSt

What proof do you have to support your claim it will worsen fuel dilution?
No Ill effects? It’s lost almost 2 cST in 5k miles.

So has stanadyne PF formula, been around for years. Same negative effects.

Solvents are solvents, and XPD is up to 30% naphtha based on the SDS. Ironically you’re adding solvents, then supplementing with a secondary non-solvent additive (LX4) to reduce the negative effects of solvents?!? You should understand a solvents’ effects on lubricants as you’re a mechanic.

It ain’t rocket science.
 
No Ill effects? It’s lost almost 2 cST in 5k miles.

So has stanadyne PF formula, been around for years. Same negative effects.

Solvents are solvents, and XPD is up to 30% naphtha based on the SDS. Ironically you’re adding solvents, then supplementing with a secondary non-solvent additive (LX4) to reduce the negative effects of solvents?!? You should understand a solvents’ effects on lubricants as you’re a mechanic.

It ain’t rocket science.

Optilube is not purely a solvent. It’s a multipurpose additive at also advertises (and backed with third party reviews) as a lubricity enhancer. I’m sure you’ve seen this.


How about having to drive it 5-6 miles one way several days per week and having to shut it down before the truck reaches temperature? I am more apt to believe cold engine fuel strategy is more to blame, as well as in cylinder dosing DPF regens, for excessive fuel dilution than this solvent.

And no I’ll effects meaning the engine could care less about the 5% fuel per the data. If there was an overall increase in wear across the board I’d be concerned. With all metals other than iron being noise I am not.

Please don’t preach to me about what solvents do to oil.
 
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Optilube is not purely a solvent. It’s a multipurpose additive at also advertises (and backed with third party reviews) as a lubricity enhancer. I’m sure you’ve seen this.


How about having to drive it 5-6 miles one way several days per week and having to shut it down before the truck reaches temperature? I am more apt to believe cold engine fuel strategy is more to blame, as well as in cylinder dosing DPF regens, for excessive fuel dilution than this solvent.

And no I’ll effects meaning the engine could care less about the 5% fuel per the data. If there was an overall increase in wear across the board I’d be concerned. With all metals other than iron being noise I am not.

Please don’t preach to me about what solvents do to oil.
It’s approximately 30% solvent. I’ve already said that. Never said “purely a solvent”.

I was using a non-solvent based fuel additive and had 8% fuel dilution on my last oil analysis due to a stuck thermostat. My cSt only dropped by 0.8 cSt. 11.1 down to 10.3 with 8% FD in 6500 miles. This was in a 2010 VW TDI. These CJAA engine uses post injection and the exhaust stroke for regeneration like the 6.7 PS.

Solvents thin oil. Adding unnecessary solvents to fuel, and fuel dilution will contribute to viscosity breakdown.

It’s really a basic concept yet here we are. It’s not a debatable concept.
 
How can you differentiate fuel thinning the oil vs oxidative thickening? It’s nearly impossible to calculate how much each causes what.

The viscosity of optilube is thicker @ 3.43 cSt @40C than diesel fuel using 2.98 cSt as a reference for diesel fuel (being a little generous). How would the solvents in this mixture thin engine oil even more than diesel fuel alone?

Im not debating solvents thin oil. At 6-10 ounces per 28 gallons, Im asking how a thicker mixture additive than what it’s being added to is going to result in more fuel dilution rather than fuel alone?
 
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How can you differentiate fuel thinning the oil vs oxidative thickening? It’s nearly impossible to calculate how much each causes what.

The viscosity of optilube is thicker @ 3.43 cSt @40C than diesel fuel using 2.98 cSt as a reference for diesel fuel (being a little generous). How would the solvents in this mixture thin engine oil even more than diesel fuel alone?

Im not debating solvents thin oil. At 6-10 ounces per 28 gallons, Im asking how a thicker mixture additive than what it’s being added to is going to result in more fuel dilution rather than fuel alone?
Post in thread 'AMSOIL AEL 5w-30, Cruze diesel, 10,000'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/amsoil-ael-5w-30-cruze-diesel-10-000.273225/post-4462072
 

All I see is merely someone’s opinion, with a lot of questions left behind as brought up by Dnewton3. There is ZERO proof there the “solvent” based fuel fuel additive was the root cause of his extra “wear”. Why was the oil brand also recommended to be changed if the additive was to blame? And there is very little change, if any, in his wear RATE if you actually read the data trend.

As far as the standadyne goes, if you read the link I posted, it performed poorly from a lubricity standpoint as a fuel additive, unlike the optilube.

If you have unbiased literature on the subject that these additives thin the fuel/oil out even more than not using them I would love to see it.
 
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It’s approximately 30% solvent. I’ve already said that. Never said “purely a solvent”.

I was using a non-solvent based fuel additive and had 8% fuel dilution on my last oil analysis due to a stuck thermostat. My cSt only dropped by 0.8 cSt. 11.1 down to 10.3 with 8% FD in 6500 miles. This was in a 2010 VW TDI. These CJAA engine uses post injection and the exhaust stroke for regeneration like the 6.7 PS.

Solvents thin oil. Adding unnecessary solvents to fuel, and fuel dilution will contribute to viscosity breakdown.

It’s really a basic concept yet here we are. It’s not a debatable concept.
Whatever is mixed with the fuel is going to be delivered to the injectors and subsequently combusted.

If the bulk viscosity of the fuel additive is ~ 3.5 cSt, then the low viscosity solvents are already mixed-in, which when combined with a 4 .5 cSt top oil, gives you about 3.5 cSt. (A top oil is a highly refined, thin mineral oil that is used as both a carrier and to reduce volitivity in storage).


So solvents don't further "thin" a mixture since they are already mixed in.

Solvents don't "attack" metals, as in corrosive effects. Solvents alone and in pure form can wash metals of any oil films but that is not the case here since the small amounts of solvents surviving the combustion temperatures is mixed with the engine oil.

Again, Fuel dilution can be caused by a number of factors including injector programming (ECU), idling, cold weather starts, and short trip driving.
 
Did MolaKule clear up your confusion?
He provided an explanation however it completely discounts Dysons’ analysis and my own experience seeing tin in a UOA while using a solvent based additive which was also Stanadyne PF. Coincidence? It must be…

It also assumes all constituents of the additive that make it into the oil don’t boil off at the normal operating temp and stay in complete balance. I do not have the knowledge or time to research this to see if would stay in equilibrium and if the additive cSt would be the same as you say.

And also discounting my own experience seeing 8% FD and dropping less than 1 cSt after 6500 miles with 10w30. My viscosity loss was less than half what you had. Also with 60% more fuel in my sample. I understand VI plays a part in this ratio but it’s not that significant since we’re comparing 10w30 vs 10w30 in a common rail engine. My last UOA is posted on here.

You do your testing with the HPL 5w40 and I’ll be the observer to see what happens. I look forward to seeing the results.
 
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