2017 Honda CR-V: CVT Overfilled from the Factory?

[The Critic]

Earlier tonight, I performed an early CVT Drain and Refill on a 2017 Honda CR-V with 19,570 miles.

The manual advises that a drain and refill should take 3.9 quarts for the FWD model and 4.5 quarts for the AWD model. The one I was working on was a FWD model.

I drained the fluid after a 40 mile highway drive, so the fluid was very hot. The fluid was allowed to drain for about 25 minutes. Here is what drained out:



Almost 5 quarts came out. While it is possible that this fluid has some serious thermal expansion, 20% seems unlikely.

I refilled with 4 quarts (spec is 3.9 quarts), idled the car for about 7 minutes (until the coolant temp gauge read normally), and performed the fluid level check.



Much to my surprise, the fluid level was pretty much spot on. The only conclusion that I can come to, is that the CVT Fluid was either overfilled from the factory, or someone decided to top it off during PDI when the transmission was still cold.

Based on this experience, I strongly encourage everyone to NOT rely on measuring the amount of fluid drained to dictate how much fluid to add. It is possible that the fluid level was wrong the factory. If you are unable to properly check the fluid level, you should not be doing the fluid change.

 

[Sayjac]

IMO the key here it to never 'soley' rely on the measured amount of fluid drained, CVT or ATF. Always check OM capacity spec as guide to refill amount. With ATF can always top up. CVT a little different, however Honda outlines the procedure. As reference member Bottom Feeder has an excellent thread and a related post on changing Honda CVT fluid on Accord.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...in_#Post4274529

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...CVT#Post4156769

If the CVT was overfilled by 1 qt at that factory, I'm not sure what that says about how exacting the fill level must be. And if it was "topped up during PDI" cold one quart, my thought would be, 'can't fix stupid'. The latter I'd think unlikely.

As always some common sense and critical thinking helps when doing any procedure such as this.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I would have probably replaced what drained.
And I would be wrong...

You did good.

 

[HeritageHighRoof]

Maybe this is one of the factors that caused my friend’s ‘15 Accord CVT to fail before 10K miles.

 

[JTK]

Was this car having CVT issues? I'm with you in that it's obviously best to check level per the FSM, but if this one wasn't having problems in ~20K miles with this potential overfill, apparently these CVTs aren't so sensitive to level.

 

[supton]

I've always questioned when someone says they put in what they took out. For this reason.

Now I don't know why transmissions can't be like engines and have a good quart range that they are happy over. But in this case it sounds like it was just happy and fine with an overfill. Which isn't surprising, I mean, just like an engine it has to have a range of fluid that it is fine with.

 

[maxdustington]

In my car, if you use the fill hole for a D&F before cycling through the gears the trans will be underfilled. In the VWVortex thread regarding the procure, everyone thought that the trans was overfilled from the factory until they put the specified amount back in and took it for a spin. Someone eventually dug up the spec from some service bulletin or something that shows that the original spec mistook litres for quarts or some dumb mistake like that.

Something I have always wondered is how much do contaminants expand the fluid? If you drain FF with 200000 KMS on it, how much of the volume is taken up by insolubles and wear metals?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: maxdustington
In my car, if you use the fill hole for a D&F before cycling through the gears the trans will be underfilled. In the VWVortex thread regarding the procure, everyone thought that the trans was overfilled from the factory until they put the specified amount back in and took it for a spin. Someone eventually dug up the spec from some service bulletin or something that shows that the original spec mistook litres for quarts or some dumb mistake like that.

Something I have always wondered is how much do contaminants expand the fluid? If you drain FF with 200000 KMS on it, how much of the volume is taken up by insolubles and wear metals?


There were some folks on the iATN website who doubted this story, so I decided to do one more fluid level check. The car is still here, so I took the car for a 10 mile drive this morning and when I returned, I allowed it to idle until the cooling fan came on multiple times.

Before starting the fluid level check, these were my coolant and CVT Fluid temperatures:



I removed the check plug and a few drops came out. So I added 1/4 qt of fluid, shifted thru all of the gear positions (3 sec each) and then performed the re-check again. This time, a thin stream of fluid came out and I collected about 6 ounces of excess fluid. Per Honda, the fluid level is correct when the fluid is "dripping from the check hole gradually."

So, I think it is safe to say that the transmission was filled correctly to begin with.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Max temp 248F............that seem a bit high.

 

[229]

You did a good job over there Michael. Chas East

 

[Sayjac]

So a scanner for CVT fluid temperature is required for fluid level check in 2017 CRV? If so what is temp range when checking fluid level?

If factory fill 1 quart over, again wonder what that says about the exactitude required d&f fluid level.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: 229
You did a good job over there Michael. Chas East


Thanks. Glad to see some iATN folks over here.

Originally Posted By: Sayjac
So a scanner for CVT fluid temperature is required for fluid level check in 2017 CRV? If so what is temp range when checking fluid level?

If factory fill 1 quart over, again wonder what that says about the exactitude required d&f fluid level.




A scanner is not required. I only used my scanner to confirm the CVT fluid temp because a vehicle can have coolant at normal temps, but the trans fluid may still be cold.

Honda does not specify a temp range for performing the CVT fluid level check. However, under the instructions for the CVT Fluid replacement, the first step is to allow the car to idle until the radiator fan turns on twice. So, I infer from the instructions that the fluid level check should be performed when the CVT fluid is close to or at normal operating temperature.

 

[Sayjac]

^^^^^OK cool, thanks for the reply. Looking at the online owners manual for the 2017 CRV I couldn't find the CVT d&f procedure listed, and seeing the scanner thought perhaps one now required for Honda. I'm glad to read one not required.

As an aside, new Nissan like the Rogue do require a scanner for CVT temp check with d&f. No OM procedure listed. I did see a YouTube where an infrared temperature gun was used on a newer Pathfinder CVT d&f, but don't know how accurate that is.