I am very fussy when it comes to engine break-in so I decided to do a very early OC. The next OC will be at 2000kms, paid for by the BMW maintenance plan.
Feedback on the results?
Feedback on the results?
2016 BMW M3 - Only 456kms on original 0W30 oil
- Thread starter ringmaster
- Start date
- Status
Thanks for the report.
Hard to really judge anything since this is just first oil change and an extremely short OCI at that.
Any idea what the factory fill is? What BMW uses during servicing is not necessarily the same as what they put in the factory. I guess what I'm asking is: how do you know it's BMW Twin Power Turbo 0w-30? Do we have a VOA to compare it to? Not that it matters that much...
Awesome car, by the way. My BIL is about to take delivery of one. Interestingly (or expectedly), he says that when he test drove this new I6 turbo, it did not feel as responsive as the outgoing V8 NA.
Hard to really judge anything since this is just first oil change and an extremely short OCI at that.
Any idea what the factory fill is? What BMW uses during servicing is not necessarily the same as what they put in the factory. I guess what I'm asking is: how do you know it's BMW Twin Power Turbo 0w-30? Do we have a VOA to compare it to? Not that it matters that much...
Awesome car, by the way. My BIL is about to take delivery of one. Interestingly (or expectedly), he says that when he test drove this new I6 turbo, it did not feel as responsive as the outgoing V8 NA.
Should have left the factory oil in there longer if you're concerned about the best break in.
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Should have left the factory oil in there longer if you're concerned about the best break in.
Why? There is no evidence to suggest that BMW uses a special break-in oil formulation and getting the excess wear metals out ASAP seems like a prudent move.
Should have left the factory oil in there longer if you're concerned about the best break in.
Why? There is no evidence to suggest that BMW uses a special break-in oil formulation and getting the excess wear metals out ASAP seems like a prudent move.
What a waste of good factory oil. Ed
I always change FF at 1000-1500 except for Hondas where the factory fill has special additives. But a UOA before 20,000 miles is a waste of money. I do my first UOA somewhere between 60 and 100,000 miles. Then I'll do another at keep or trade decision time. (usually) 150,000.
In California, this would be breaking the law!! you go directly to jail!
Maybe they have a special wing for OCD oil changers ?
)
Maybe they have a special wing for OCD oil changers ?
)Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Should have left the factory oil in there longer if you're concerned about the best break in.
+1 It's there for a reason.
Should have left the factory oil in there longer if you're concerned about the best break in.
+1 It's there for a reason.
Originally Posted By: ringmaster
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Should have left the factory oil in there longer if you're concerned about the best break in.
Why? There is no evidence to suggest that BMW uses a special break-in oil formulation and getting the excess wear metals out ASAP seems like a prudent move.
Nor is there any evidence that they DON'T.
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Should have left the factory oil in there longer if you're concerned about the best break in.
Why? There is no evidence to suggest that BMW uses a special break-in oil formulation and getting the excess wear metals out ASAP seems like a prudent move.
Nor is there any evidence that they DON'T.
I've owned a number of M3's and in the past BMW always required a 1200 mi drain of the factory fill. Is that still the procedure on your '16 M3? Sounds like it is if BMW is going to pay for an oil change at 2000 kms. If it is, there's a good chance the factory fill is different from the service fill. I did a uoa on the 1200 mi drain from the factory fill on a V8 M3 and the oil appeared to me to be a relatively thin low detergent oil, maybe even a mineral oil rather than a syn - something like the old school break-in oils you see on Amazon.com now for rebuilt motors. They're intended to facilitate a controlled break-in, but they're not formulated for an extended drain, thus the early change.
The cylinders in your your new M3, by the way, are DLC treated (diamond like coating). Very hard and durable. Maybe they, or the rings, don't require any kind of break-in. On the other hand, maybe they do. With all due respect, why do people think they know more than the factory engine development engineers when it comes to the care and maintenance of their cars?
The cylinders in your your new M3, by the way, are DLC treated (diamond like coating). Very hard and durable. Maybe they, or the rings, don't require any kind of break-in. On the other hand, maybe they do. With all due respect, why do people think they know more than the factory engine development engineers when it comes to the care and maintenance of their cars?
Last edited:
Break in oil by definition is oil used for a short time that allows more friction to speed up break in. Companies put high quality normal oil in new vehicles. There is a period after that. Break in oil isn't used for extended oil change intervals. They want you to keep the oil in because it is expensive oil and can do the miles, and it makes their cost of ownership number go down for marketing. They don't care about the metal particles the filter isn't catching, why would they, they want to sell more cars. Most people trade in long before any effects of more initial scoring are noticed. Technically the OP uis right and I do the same thing, when I have had a new car, which isn't a lot of times. If what I say is wrong, it should be possible to buy this magic elixir oil from Honda parts, because they stock everything the car comes with and maybe a brand new car has to have an oil change for some repair reason. I don't believe anyone is going to find this special new car oil at Honda parts dept.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
What a waste of good factory oil. Ed
Yes, he took out perfectly good oil and put in perfectly good oil Zero sum gain.
Here is a post from a GM engineer (Bbobynski) from 2005 people need to really read this
While the official answer is that the factory oil fill is nothing special....just plain 5W30 Mobil 1 just like you get in the store...the fact is that the engine was assembled on the assembly line with a small amount of ZDP rich assembly lube applied to critical surfaces as assembly lube. Cylinder walls, ring, ring lands, bearings, cam lobes, etc. all receive local applications of a Lubrizol assembly lube product an/or EOS. This assembly lube probably totals around 6 ounces or so total for the engine. This obviously protects against local scuffing or wear during the initial few seconds of operation and then the ZDP rich assembly lube is washed into the oil and contributes to spiking the factory oil fill with extra ZDP....so....in fact, the factory oil fill does, by default, have slightly higher levels of ZDP to guard against breakin wear. Removing this oil and changing early does put less ZDP in the oil for the breakin miles that follow.
It is probably not a big deal at all because the ZDP additive is fairly small, most of the purpose of it being in the oil is covered by the first few miles of operation and new oil would have a certain level of ZDP equivalent to the factory fill oil anyway assuming some of the extra ZDP was used up during the earliest moments of breakin.
But, the fact is that the factory oil fill is a bit "special" having that spike of ZDP rich assembly lube in it.
If you must change early for piece of mind, you could add a pint of GM EOS to the new oil fill to replicate the assembly lube addition to the factory oil fill.
Personally, I would just run the factory oil fill to the first change interval. If you do want to change early, follow the oil life monitor and change at 50% oil life or something like that for an early first change. Changing at 500 and 2000 is a waste of time and money as the oil in the engine at that point is perfectly fine. It won't hurt to change it, especially if you add the EOS but it really isn't going to help anything, either.
I have seen a lot of factory engines torn down after running lots of miles with the factory oil fill and they look perfect inside with no harm done whatsoever by running the oil to the first full oil monitor change interval.
What a waste of good factory oil. Ed
Yes, he took out perfectly good oil and put in perfectly good oil Zero sum gain.
Here is a post from a GM engineer (Bbobynski) from 2005 people need to really read this
While the official answer is that the factory oil fill is nothing special....just plain 5W30 Mobil 1 just like you get in the store...the fact is that the engine was assembled on the assembly line with a small amount of ZDP rich assembly lube applied to critical surfaces as assembly lube. Cylinder walls, ring, ring lands, bearings, cam lobes, etc. all receive local applications of a Lubrizol assembly lube product an/or EOS. This assembly lube probably totals around 6 ounces or so total for the engine. This obviously protects against local scuffing or wear during the initial few seconds of operation and then the ZDP rich assembly lube is washed into the oil and contributes to spiking the factory oil fill with extra ZDP....so....in fact, the factory oil fill does, by default, have slightly higher levels of ZDP to guard against breakin wear. Removing this oil and changing early does put less ZDP in the oil for the breakin miles that follow.
It is probably not a big deal at all because the ZDP additive is fairly small, most of the purpose of it being in the oil is covered by the first few miles of operation and new oil would have a certain level of ZDP equivalent to the factory fill oil anyway assuming some of the extra ZDP was used up during the earliest moments of breakin.
But, the fact is that the factory oil fill is a bit "special" having that spike of ZDP rich assembly lube in it.
If you must change early for piece of mind, you could add a pint of GM EOS to the new oil fill to replicate the assembly lube addition to the factory oil fill.
Personally, I would just run the factory oil fill to the first change interval. If you do want to change early, follow the oil life monitor and change at 50% oil life or something like that for an early first change. Changing at 500 and 2000 is a waste of time and money as the oil in the engine at that point is perfectly fine. It won't hurt to change it, especially if you add the EOS but it really isn't going to help anything, either.
I have seen a lot of factory engines torn down after running lots of miles with the factory oil fill and they look perfect inside with no harm done whatsoever by running the oil to the first full oil monitor change interval.
Originally Posted By: m6pwr
The cylinders in your your new M3, by the way, are DLC treated (diamond like coating). Very hard and durable. Maybe they, or the rings, don't require any kind of break-in. On the other hand, maybe they do. With all due respect, why do people think they know more than the factory engine development engineers when it comes to the care and maintenance of their cars?
Cylinder walls probably aren't DLC coated, just the rings, if that. Do you have any reference? I can't confirm your facts there with a google. The N52 BMW engine used to use Alusil aluminum cylinders only (no Fe liner), yet I think BMW went to Fe liners on all the newer stuff.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
.then the ZDP rich assembly lube is washed into the oil and contributes to spiking the factory oil fill with extra ZDP....so....in fact, the factory oil fill does, by default, have slightly higher levels of ZDP to guard against breakin wear. Removing this oil and changing early does put less ZDP in the oil for the breakin miles that follow..
That doesn't apply here. Looking at the UOA, there isn't extra ZDDP in there, just a typical Euro-oil amount. I'm currently using a high-moly oil for break-in, as Honda formerly did that, and there was a tribology research paper that showed machine marks lasting longer with tons of moly in there.
Bottom line, its always good to get the iron particles out. Change is good here. Oil filter only catches down to around 10 or 20 micron particles, so a good oil drain plug magnet is great during break-in.
The cylinders in your your new M3, by the way, are DLC treated (diamond like coating). Very hard and durable. Maybe they, or the rings, don't require any kind of break-in. On the other hand, maybe they do. With all due respect, why do people think they know more than the factory engine development engineers when it comes to the care and maintenance of their cars?
Cylinder walls probably aren't DLC coated, just the rings, if that. Do you have any reference? I can't confirm your facts there with a google. The N52 BMW engine used to use Alusil aluminum cylinders only (no Fe liner), yet I think BMW went to Fe liners on all the newer stuff.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
.then the ZDP rich assembly lube is washed into the oil and contributes to spiking the factory oil fill with extra ZDP....so....in fact, the factory oil fill does, by default, have slightly higher levels of ZDP to guard against breakin wear. Removing this oil and changing early does put less ZDP in the oil for the breakin miles that follow..
That doesn't apply here. Looking at the UOA, there isn't extra ZDDP in there, just a typical Euro-oil amount. I'm currently using a high-moly oil for break-in, as Honda formerly did that, and there was a tribology research paper that showed machine marks lasting longer with tons of moly in there.
Bottom line, its always good to get the iron particles out. Change is good here. Oil filter only catches down to around 10 or 20 micron particles, so a good oil drain plug magnet is great during break-in.
I have a modern engine with an oil filter that is used to protect my engine against damaging bits. Draining the FF early is a waste of oil and probably not the best option for a new engine. Bluestream added the reason. If you know more than the factory engineers at BMW then I applaud you. Ed
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
That doesn't apply here. Looking at the UOA, there isn't extra ZDDP in there, just a typical Euro-oil amount. I'm currently using a high-moly oil for break-in, as Honda formerly did that, and there was a tribology research paper that showed machine marks lasting longer with tons of moly in there.
Bottom line, its always good to get the iron particles out. Change is good here. Oil filter only catches down to around 10 or 20 micron particles, so a good oil drain plug magnet is great during break-in.
I used the whole post to keep it in context. The issue is not the ZDP, but that a GM engineer said to keep the oil for a full OCI. No need to change early, its a waste.
If changing at 456 KM is so good, why not change again at 1000 KM? That must also be good?
That doesn't apply here. Looking at the UOA, there isn't extra ZDDP in there, just a typical Euro-oil amount. I'm currently using a high-moly oil for break-in, as Honda formerly did that, and there was a tribology research paper that showed machine marks lasting longer with tons of moly in there.
Bottom line, its always good to get the iron particles out. Change is good here. Oil filter only catches down to around 10 or 20 micron particles, so a good oil drain plug magnet is great during break-in.
I used the whole post to keep it in context. The issue is not the ZDP, but that a GM engineer said to keep the oil for a full OCI. No need to change early, its a waste.
If changing at 456 KM is so good, why not change again at 1000 KM? That must also be good?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I have a modern engine with an oil filter that is used to protect my engine against damaging bits. Draining the FF early is a waste of oil and probably not the best option for a new engine. Bluestream added the reason. If you know more than the factory engineers at BMW then I applaud you. Ed
Except Bluestream's quotes were not applicable, small detail. Not extra ZDDP. Nothing at all special about the BMW oil.
Update: The S55 BMW engine here uses no liners, instead they twin-wire arc-sray on something, not sure what. I don't think its DLC. Someone confirm or deny?
Anyway, having less Fe floating around in your oil is better, so change it, good idea.
Remember your oil filter in your "modern engine" doesn't get out junk less than around 10-20 microns.
I have a modern engine with an oil filter that is used to protect my engine against damaging bits. Draining the FF early is a waste of oil and probably not the best option for a new engine. Bluestream added the reason. If you know more than the factory engineers at BMW then I applaud you. Ed
Except Bluestream's quotes were not applicable, small detail. Not extra ZDDP. Nothing at all special about the BMW oil.
Update: The S55 BMW engine here uses no liners, instead they twin-wire arc-sray on something, not sure what. I don't think its DLC. Someone confirm or deny?
Anyway, having less Fe floating around in your oil is better, so change it, good idea.
Remember your oil filter in your "modern engine" doesn't get out junk less than around 10-20 microns.
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Remember your oil filter in your "modern engine" doesn't get out junk less than around 10-20 microns.
Do particles at that size damage the engine?
Remember your oil filter in your "modern engine" doesn't get out junk less than around 10-20 microns.
Do particles at that size damage the engine?
- Status
