2015 Tacoma V6, 2.5K, Amsoil Signature 5W-30

[btanchors]

Still going through the break-in process on the new Tacoma.

Remnants of the break-in process and factory fill oil still washing out. I am going 5K miles on the next fill, and then will go to 10K miles on the fill after that, providing UOAs continue to show progress with break-in.

 

[Kuato]

And for your differentials also. Nice to see the speculation of other threads and the early first change hypothesis backed up by some real world numbers

(waiting for someone to say that the sample size is too small, Toyota engines are easy on oil, manufacturer says leave FF in for X miles, etc etc etc LOL)

 

[ExMachina]

Maybe a little too much oil changin' going on here. I'd just do one after 1,500 miles, then normal OCI's after that. Are you using an Amsoil Ea oil filter or Fram Ultra for best filtering? And an oil drain plug magnet?

 

[zuluplus30]

Holy waste of a good oil batman! Seriously if you're going to be a chronic dumper, stop spending $$$ on SS and go with the OE line at least. Save the SS until you get to 10K OCIs

It's a bit overkill honestly. I'm sure it makes you sleep well at night but in the end a Toyota V6 will go 300K+ whether you feed it $9 a quart Amsoil or $2 quart conventional.

 

[Brybo86]

Originally Posted By: zuluplus30
Holy waste of a good oil batman! Seriously if you're going to be a chronic dumper, stop spending $$$ on SS and go with the OE line at least. Save the SS until you get to 10K OCIs

It's a bit overkill honestly. I'm sure it makes you sleep well at night but in the end a Toyota V6 will go 300K+ whether you feed it $9 a quart Amsoil or $2 quart conventional.


Btanchors don't take this guy seriously...
While it may be a little wasteful of money....
I as well as many members of the forum appreciate hard numbers vs the butt dyno/guessing/feeling posts that people such as the above poster thrive on

 

[zuluplus30]

The OP has used 11 quarts of Amsoil Signature over 4000 miles plus 2 UOAs with TBN/TAN. That's approaching $150. Hardly a classification of a "little wasteful".

The real question is what results are you searching for? You're changing out oil and differential fluids at insanely short intervals with no clear goal established. What's the point of a $45 UOA every oil change if you've already committed to ignore the data (UOA #1 showed wear metals trending exponentially down and oil suitable for significantly extended use). I could give two squats what he does with his money, but the REAL hard numbers as you put it could easily be accomplished with significantly less cost and waste. As I said earlier. Overkill.

 

[btanchors]

OK, let me explain what I am doing...

I agree, if the goal is to achieve the most economical use of resources, I am doing a very poor job.

My overall purpose is to document and understand the break-in process and to set myself up in the future for consistent results. Specifically:

1) Is TBN depletion really non-linear? I am curious to see how quickly it comes down, and figure out when TAN starts increasing.

2) How long does it take before break-in element levels stabilize?

3) I want to wash out any remnants of break in oil and contaminants so when I *do* start extending OCIs, I'll know these items will not be influencing my results.

My plan is to increase OCIs until I reach 10K miles (assuming UOA results indicate this is safe, which I do not anticipate being a problem).

The next UOA (and oil change) will occur at 10K miles (5K on the oil), at which time I will review the results, and if OK, I plan to take it all the way to 20K, with 10K miles on the oil. Assuming everything is OK at that point, my plan for that point on is oil changes and UOAs every 10K miles or 1 year, whichever occurs first.

 

[RoadRaceJosh]

Does your warranty allow for 10k OCIs? Mine doesn't, which is why I'm doing 5k OCIs until the warranty expires. With the easy service my truck sees 5k on conventional is a cake walk.

Do you have magnetic drain plugs on the gearboxes? My Nissan does and I'm glad for it.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3812914/2015_Nissan_Frontier,_Rear_axl#Post3812914

 

[badtlc]

forget TBN/TAN. If you are serious about tracking the oil condition, you need to start with virgin nitration, oxidation, sulfation, viscosity, flashpoint measurements. Those are the important ones to monitor for oil condition.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
forget TBN/TAN. If you are serious about tracking the oil condition, you need to start with virgin nitration, oxidation, sulfation, viscosity, flashpoint measurements. Those are the important ones to monitor for oil condition.


Sorry, but while those may be important for some analyses, saying TBN and TAN should be forgotten is dead wrong.

Simple examples: TBN = zero and/or TAN = 100%



Originally Posted By: btanchors
OK, let me explain what I am doing...

I agree, if the goal is to achieve the most economical use of resources, I am doing a very poor job.

My overall purpose is to document and understand the break-in process and to set myself up in the future for consistent results. Specifically:

1) Is TBN depletion really non-linear? I am curious to see how quickly it comes down, and figure out when TAN starts increasing.

2) How long does it take before break-in element levels stabilize?

3) I want to wash out any remnants of break in oil and contaminants so when I *do* start extending OCIs, I'll know these items will not be influencing my results.

My plan is to increase OCIs until I reach 10K miles (assuming UOA results indicate this is safe, which I do not anticipate being a problem).

The next UOA (and oil change) will occur at 10K miles (5K on the oil), at which time I will review the results, and if OK, I plan to take it all the way to 20K, with 10K miles on the oil. Assuming everything is OK at that point, my plan for that point on is oil changes and UOAs every 10K miles or 1 year, whichever occurs first.


+1! Keep posting to let us know how it's going!

 

[Brons2]

Originally Posted By: btanchors

My overall purpose is to document and understand the break-in process and to set myself up in the future for consistent results. Specifically:

1) Is TBN depletion really non-linear? I am curious to see how quickly it comes down, and figure out when TAN starts increasing.

2) How long does it take before break-in element levels stabilize?

3) I want to wash out any remnants of break in oil and contaminants so when I *do* start extending OCIs, I'll know these items will not be influencing my results.


You can still do these things using a less costly oil, but to each his own.

The wear metals at 5,000 mile are already pretty low save for copper, which may leach from an oil cooler for a while. I'd go the full Toyota recommended 10K *this* time if it were me and you've already got SSO in there again. Then you could maybe extend *further* based on the 10K results. But with Al and Fe so low there's no reason to run another short OCI to wash things out. Things look pretty washed out to me. $0.02.

 

[btanchors]

Joshua_Skinner,

The manual specifies oil changes at 5,000 miles. But I won't tell anyone that I'm going to 10K if you don't - OK

The rear and front differentials already came with magnetic drain plugs. The transfer case did not. I've been told there is an internal magnet in the transfer case that is accessible only when the transfer case is disassembled. However, I found a magnetic drain plug the exact same size as the OEM non-magnetic plug, so I installed it.

I do not use any magnetic plugs or anything on the engine. I use Mobil 1 M1-209 filters on the engine.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: btanchors
I do not use any magnetic plugs or anything on the engine. I use Mobil 1 M1-209 filters on the engine.

Thats a decent oil filter, but if the goal is to maximize how much junk is floating around in the oil, a Fram Ultra is rated at 80% @ 5 microns (exceptional). An Ultra, and a drain plug magnet, gets you about the best you can do. If you want even smaller junk out, get a MicroGreen oil filter which scrubs out down to 3 microns or so (except not quite the longevity of a Fram Ultra).

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: Kuato


Sorry, but while those may be important for some analyses, saying TBN and TAN should be forgotten is dead wrong.

Simple examples: TBN = zero and/or TAN = 100%


This is a great example of people posting just to be posting without sharing actual knowledge. You will not find one UOA on this site ever showing a TBN of 0 or TAN at 100%. That just isn't going to happen and neither tell you condition of the oil. Oils can maintain TBN of 1 well after they should be condemned, as just one example.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: Kuato


Sorry, but while those may be important for some analyses, saying TBN and TAN should be forgotten is dead wrong.

Simple examples: TBN = zero and/or TAN = 100%


This is a great example of people posting just to be posting without sharing actual knowledge. You will not find one UOA on this site ever showing a TBN of 0 or TAN at 100%. That just isn't going to happen and neither tell you condition of the oil. Oils can maintain TBN of 1 well after they should be condemned, as just one example.


I made that hyperbolic statement for clarity, thank you for jumping all over it and taking it for Gospel.

Of course the TBN can remain near 1 for awhile, since depletion is not linear.

But by that point, other factors will begin showing up, which is where your other metrics come in. I wasn't saying that your post was invalid, but rather that ignoring TBN and TAN is not a good idea.

I think we're on the same page here - but coming at it from different angles, is all.

 

[Garak]

You both bring up an interesting point. I'd love to know if we've ever seen a Blackstone UOA with a TBN of less than 1. Anyone? Dave, you have a big database of UOAs. Any like that?

I certainly don't believe getting TBN done is useless. However, if 1 is the cutoff for a Blackstone UOA, and we never see under 1 no matter how bad things are, should there be some modification to that cutoff point.

 

[btanchors]

Garak,

I think I remember seeing a UOA somewhere that had a TBN of zero. Can't remember where or when I saw it, though.

I think the issue is not that the cutoff point needs modification. Instead, anyone that is 1) A member of this forum, and 2) Spends the money to perform a UOA is not someone who is likely to neglect oil changes and therefore is very unlikely we'll see a UOA with a TBN less than 1.

I'm sure some of the horror stories we've seen about seized engines of vehicles where the owner never changed the oil would likely have TBNs near zero, but these people never have UOAs performed or they would have changed the oil in the first place.

 

[Garak]

That's where I wonder. Of course, guys here doing UOAs aren't going to be neglectful. But, we know that UOAs have been sent in for some vehicles with very questionable maintenance histories, which had nothing to do with the fault of the poster himself. I just thought we should have seen a TBN under 1 more often than we have.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: Kuato


But by that point, other factors will begin showing up, which is where your other metrics come in. I wasn't saying that your post was invalid, but rather that ignoring TBN and TAN is not a good idea.

I think we're on the same page here - but coming at it from different angles, is all.


Oxidation, nitration, etc. all are factors to be watching from the get go. The base oil can begin breakdown before additive packages are spent, if they do ever hit the completely spent point which doesn't happen often. You can have a TBN of 10 and the oil could still be spent if it is sludging up.

 

[Nate1979]

Yikes, I think I would be rinsing out my engine with a cheaper oil, like Mobil 1

.