2015 Honda CRV, Mobil1 0w-20, 5 samples

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These UOAs were done in succession in response to a strong fuel smell I noticed when checking the oil in my 2015 CRV (DI, normally-aspirated). I was hoping the fuel smell was of no consequence, but as you can see, I was wrong and have entered Polaris Labs "panic" zone for fuel dilution. As you may note, the fuel dilution values are based on tests using gas chromotography ("GC"), which is supposedly the best method available to we civilians.

These samples were all drawn immediately after 100-400 mile Interstate runs in mild weather, so short-tripping isn't an answer. And Honda's Maintenance Minder (which is supposedly "Intelligent) points toward a 10-12,000 mile OCI.

I took these results to my dealer who, after consulting Honda's Tech department, ran a series of tests and found nothing wrong. My dealer was very supportive, but had no other options available. I asked American Honda for help, forwarding these UOAs and explanations to them. American Honda declined to do more investigation unless I had a driveability issue or CEL, and wouldn't say if this was a normal characteristic of the engine or not.

So I'm left trying to figure out what this means. Despite the fuel level, wear metal numbers seem good, especially for a relatively new engine, so maybe none of this matters. UOA 3, which shows a lower level of dilution was taken after 1,100 miles on a fresh change using only 93 octane fuel, so this could be an engine that behaves like Mazda Sky-Activs and benefits from premium, or it could be low simply because it takes time for fuel to accumulate. I'll test this more fully.

What do you folks think:

1) Bad car, bad engine, on the road to ruin, dump it or don't keep it past the warranty period?

2) Proceed with caution, using something like a 4 month/4k OCI and see what happens? The oil's viscosity is slipping below grade by that point.

3) Behave like a typical Honda owner, rely on the Maintenance Minder, drive it and be happy?

I don't know that oil brand makes much of a difference here and will stick with 0w-20, at least through the warranty period. A bad PCV valve could be an issue I suppose, but that seems pretty unlikely.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks!
 
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I'm thinking an injector is leaking after shutoff.

I think i would run a heavier oil until you sort it out. Maybe a 0w or 5w 30. The fuel dilution does not look like its spiked your wear numbers though.
 
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93 Octaine fuel is no cure and a big waste of money...I would guess an injector is leaking and "bleeding out" every time you shut down the engine. A fuel pressure guage on the injector rail could prove/rule out.
 
I like the idea of checking the Pressure on the Fuel Rail.
Easy to do if you have a Schrader Valve.
I have one of these and checked mine while having NO problem.

https://www.amazon.com/OTC-5630-Fuel-Pre...+pressure+gauge

BUT, if it's a 2015 Model Year, it still must be under warranty, right.
If you want a little more info before going to the Dealer,
see if Auto Zone or AAP has a Pressure Gauge LOANER at no cost.
 
Thanks for the comments. A leaking injector is one of the things the dealer looked for. The car's ECM (I've been told) keeps track of pressure drops in the fuel rails and reported no such events. Suspecting an injector issue I offered to have a new set of injectors installed at my cost, but after consulting with tech support my dealer convinced me this would not be a productive exercise.

The car starts promptly and there's no white smoke on start-up. Plus, after a long highway run one would have expected most of any fuel added through leak-down to evaporate.
 
Originally Posted By: larryinnewyork
I like the idea of checking the Pressure on the Fuel Rail.
Easy to do if you have a Schrader Valve.
I have one of these and checked mine while having NO problem.

https://www.amazon.com/OTC-5630-Fuel-Pre...+pressure+gauge

BUT, if it's a 2015 Model Year, it still must be under warranty, right.
If you want a little more info before going to the Dealer,
see if Auto Zone or AAP has a Pressure Gauge LOANER at no cost.


I think this is more complicated with a DI engine given the much higher fuel rail pressure. Isn't it?
 
Can the lab give you exact fuel dilution numbers?

I would consider resetting the computer so it can relearn.

And for whatever reason, premium seemed to help so I would return to that.

And move up to xw30.

What has your fuel economy been like?
 
I think you have a common 15 CRV. Its know that these engines do this. Is it harmful? Sure. But will the engine last past 200K? More than likely. How many miles are on the car? I might trim down the mileage on oil changes to like 4 or 5K miles. Drive it be happy!
 
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Can the lab give you exact fuel dilution numbers?

I would consider resetting the computer so it can relearn.

And for whatever reason, premium seemed to help so I would return to that.

And move up to xw30.

What has your fuel economy been like?


It seems dilution numbers >5% are rare in the Polaris world so its machinery is not calibrated to specify values above that threshold.

Fuel economy has been good. We make a regular 400 mile trip (3/4 Interstate, 1/4 2 lane highway) and we typically get 31-34 mpg, which to me is pretty good given the car's size and frontal area.

0w-30 is a thought (Mobil says it's OK), but Honda specifies 0w-20 and I'll stick to that. The warranty could be useful and I'll play it by the book.
 
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
I think you have a common 15 CRV. Its know that these engines do this. Is it harmful? Sure. But will the engine last past 200K? More than likely. How many miles are on the car? I might trim down the mileage on oil changes to like 4 or 5K miles. Drive it be happy!


Thanks and I hope you're right. Based on Honda's response this may be the case. A shortened OCI makes sense to me. 16,000 miles on the CRV.

I haven't seen much evidence that K24Ws are fuel diluters: the UOAs posted here are usually from Blackstone which isn't the nest for determining fuel dilution.

Have you had a UOA on your CRV?
 
Originally Posted By: Danh
Thanks and I hope you're right. Based on Honda's response this may be the case. A shortened OCI makes sense to me. 16,000 miles on the CRV.

I haven't seen much evidence that K24Ws are fuel diluters: the UOAs posted here are usually from Blackstone which isn't the nest for determining fuel dilution.

Have you had a UOA on your CRV?

No I haven't. The only person i know that has done a UOA on a 15 CRV is ag_ghost. But his UOA came out with some fuel dilution too. UOA I have 31K on my CRV. The biggest problems I have seen with the CRVs is the CVT.
 
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted By: Danh
Thanks and I hope you're right. Based on Honda's response this may be the case. A shortened OCI makes sense to me. 16,000 miles on the CRV.

I haven't seen much evidence that K24Ws are fuel diluters: the UOAs posted here are usually from Blackstone which isn't the nest for determining fuel dilution.

Have you had a UOA on your CRV?

No I haven't. The only person i know that has done a UOA on a 15 CRV is ag_ghost. But his UOA came out with some fuel dilution too. UOA I have 31K on my CRV. The biggest problems I have seen with the CRVs is the CVT.


You're probably happier without a UOA. Wish I had followed your path!

I'm hoping the CVT is OK; I've gone through 2 CVT-related TSBs so far (you too, probably) the idle/low speed vibration issue and and the more recent reprogramming to prevent belt slipping. Fingers crossed.
 
I would go with the 0W-30 oil for sure...warranty worries?...it would test a 20Wt in a week!

Has any body even heard of a warranty claim being denied because of a viscosity test? Bet not!
 
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
I think you have a common 15 CRV. Its know that these engines do this. Is it harmful? Sure. But will the engine last past 200K? More than likely. How many miles are on the car? I might trim down the mileage on oil changes to like 4 or 5K miles. Drive it be happy!


+1 My daughter has a 2016 CRV and the dealer gave her 6 0w20 oil changes free. They want the car in every 6000 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
My daughter has a 2016 CRV and the dealer gave her 6 0w20 oil changes free. They want the car in every 6000 miles.


They could be using the 0w20 synthetic-blend that they offer.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
All the sensors working correctly?


Beats me. But in the dealer's interrogation of the PCM I expect an out-of -spec sensor would've shown up or at least a CEL would be showing.
 
Your intuition to go shorter oci's was correct. Go up to a thicker 0w-20 . Pennzoil Ultra or Castrol Magnetec to see if that helps. Did the oil level drop on the dip stick toward the end of the oci?
 
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Can the lab give you exact fuel dilution numbers?
I would consider resetting the computer so it can relearn.
And for whatever reason, premium seemed to help so I would return to that.
And move up to xw30.
What has your fuel economy been like?

It seems dilution numbers >5% are rare in the Polaris world so its machinery is not calibrated to specify values above that threshold.
Fuel economy has been good. We make a regular 400 mile trip (3/4 Interstate, 1/4 2 lane highway) and we typically get 31-34 mpg, which to me is pretty good given the car's size and frontal area.
0w-30 is a thought (Mobil says it's OK), but Honda specifies 0w-20 and I'll stick to that. The warranty could be useful and I'll play it by the book.


0W30 may make sense in terms of providing increased margin of safety/film thickness.
I would concur with you in sticking to 0W20 at say, up to 10K OCI or less , as it's metal wear rates is good, besides warranty requirements.
However the fuel contamination issue if left unresolved, may promote oil consumption as the engine aged.
I would attempt avoiding high Noack ,wide spread multigrade in your application .... for now.
 
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Originally Posted By: FZ1
Your intuition to go shorter oci's was correct. Go up to a thicker 0w-20 . Pennzoil Ultra or Castrol Magnetec to see if that helps. Did the oil level drop on the dip stick toward the end of the oci?


Magnetec is a bit thicker than Mobil1(near the top of the xxw-20 range) but Ultra is about the same. I may give Magnetec a shot, especially as any extended drain advantages Mobil1 may have would be wasted.

The car has no noticeable oil consumption; actually the level can climb a bit under some conditions so who knows how much oil is consumed but replaced by its unwelcome cousin?
 
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