2015 Expedition Ecoboost - M1 5w30, 5123 miles

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Here is the UOA I recently had done on my wife's 2015 Ford Expedition with the 3.5L Ecoboost. Oil is Mobil 1 5w30, filter is a Motorcraft FL-500S: As you can see, the fuel is quite high and the oil is diluted. I ran into this on several UOAs I had done on the 2011 F-150 I previously had, but it was never this high. So I decided to take it in to the dealer to get it checked out while still under warranty. The service writer was puzzled about why I took the vehicle in, since it was running fine, and he'd never even heard of a UOA. Regardless, they agreed to look at it. This is what they told me in response: So, "It's supposed to be like that". I'm not really satisfied with that, but I'm going to let it go for now and keep doing UOAs and using a 5k OCI. At least it's in their system that I raised the issue. Will report back if anything changes.
 
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The Eco Boost Expy is fun to drive, but I would never buy one until Ford figures this problem out. Tech going in reverse.
 
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I wouldn't be happy with that response either. There's a thread going here with another EB engine that talks about the TSB Blackstone referenced. Your rig (and mine) are not included (yet). But I guess it "Isn't a problem; everything's normal" until enough people complain and they issue a TSB. Do you remember what your oil life indicator was at (% oil life remaining) by chance? What I'm curious about is the wear metals are already starting to climb past the universial averages. I think Blackstone mentioned on my report the averages are based upon a 5,900 mile run, and you're below that. I'd like the oil gurus here to chime in (I'm still a FNG) if they think the fuel is contributing to this or it's just the way the cycle went.
 
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Dude I'd run M1 0w40 in that engine until fuel dilution issues are solved. Bit of viscosity reserve and a turbo-worthy oil too. Your 7.xx viscosity isn't great. That's a thin 5w20, almost way way too thin.
 
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Dude I'd run M1 0w40 in that engine until fuel dilution issues are solved. Bit of viscosity reserve and a turbo-worthy oil too. Your 7.xx viscosity isn't great. That's a thin 5w20, almost way way too thin.
I'd have to disagree with that given that that flavor of M1 is one of their few high calcium formulations (look at one of the many LSPI threads on this site for info on the connection between that and calcium in oil for DIT engines). M1 5W30 ESP has very high HTHS for its grade and is low in calcium, but is also expensive and has a low starting TBN that makes it less suitable for long OCIs. Just my two cents worth, it will be my warmer weather oil until I can find something better for my LSPI/dilution prone DIT engine.
 
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However, is LSPI any problem in those 3.5L Ecoboost engines? If it has that reputation, then M1 0w40 is NOT the best choice. In this case M1 0w40 is best because it hasn't had known LSPI gremlins pop up AFAIK. Need that reserve viscosity to maintain an oil film with fuel dilution.
 

tspangle88

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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Dude I'd run M1 0w40 in that engine until fuel dilution issues are solved. Bit of viscosity reserve and a turbo-worthy oil too. Your 7.xx viscosity isn't great. That's a thin 5w20, almost way way too thin.
I've thought about it, but I'm a bit leery of deviating from the factory spec when it's under warranty. If I did end up having an issue, I can just see them blaming the non-spec oil.
 
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Originally Posted By: tspangle88
I've thought about it, but I'm a bit leery of deviating from the factory spec when it's under warranty. If I did end up having an issue, I can just see them blaming the non-spec oil.
Another way is to go ahead and use mostly M1 5w30, then leave room for 1 quart of M1 15w50 car oil or M1 20w50 VTwin Motorcycle Oil to boost viscosity. I'd add the Xw50 M1 oils at 3,000 miles after a fresh oil change with M1 5w30 when fuel dilution is beginning to bite you.
 
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
However, is LSPI any problem in those 3.5L Ecoboost engines? If it has that reputation, then M1 0w40 is NOT the best choice. In this case M1 0w40 is best because it hasn't had known LSPI gremlins pop up AFAIK. Need that reserve viscosity to maintain an oil film with fuel dilution.
Found a scary pic... Now, I have no idea what the occurrence of LSPI is for the 3.5l Ecoboost in the field. There are certainly people online who think that LSPI damaged their Ecoboost, but I don't know that Ford has admitted anything.
 
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Premium octane, and a 2nd generation dexos1 oil (new spec incorporates their stochastic pre-ignition test) would be a couple easy first steps to take. ILSAC GF-6 incorporates the Ford test, but it won't come online for a long time yet.
 
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Im curious how premium octane would fix fuel dilution. I'm running premium now, but most of my last oil run was on standard octane. I agree with not changing oil viscosity during the warranty period. Maybe just shorten the time between changes. 5,000 miles seems to be the upper limit in most cases.
 

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Originally Posted By: Onug
Im curious how premium octane would fix fuel dilution. I'm running premium now, but most of my last oil run was on standard octane.
My understanding is that these engines dump extra fuel to keep things cool when you are using lower octane fuel. So, if you run higher octane, it doesn't have to do that, so you get less fuel dilution (and presumably better mileage). I did run premium (93) in my F-150, and we did it for a while in the Expedition, too, but it's my wife's car and it gets driven a lot, and now that the price difference is like 60-70 cents a gallon, in a vehicle that only gets about 15 mpg, it starts to add up. So I've taken to only running premium when we are towing our travel trailer now.
 
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Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Dude I'd run M1 0w40 in that engine until fuel dilution issues are solved. Bit of viscosity reserve and a turbo-worthy oil too. Your 7.xx viscosity isn't great. That's a thin 5w20, almost way way too thin.
I'd have to disagree with that given that that flavor of M1 is one of their few high calcium formulations (look at one of the many LSPI threads on this site for info on the connection between that and calcium in oil for DIT engines). M1 5W30 ESP has very high HTHS for its grade and is low in calcium, but is also expensive and has a low starting TBN that makes it less suitable for long OCIs. Just my two cents worth, it will be my warmer weather oil until I can find something better for my LSPI/dilution prone DIT engine.
His calcium is at ~1000ppm. What do you consider a low calcium formula? I went running through the UOA's here and see all sorts of (X)W-30 oils with calcium readings in the 2 and 3k range. Regular M1, M1EP and M1 0W-30AFE all look to have calcium around 1k. This VOA is for M1 ESP 0W-30 X1 with a calcium ~2k: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3767525/Re:_VOA:__Mobil-1_ESP_X1_0W-30 And this VOA is from 2013 for M1 ESP 5W-30 with 1275 Calcium: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3119418
 
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Originally Posted By: tspangle88
Here is the UOA I recently had done on my wife's 2015 Ford Expedition with the 3.5L Ecoboost. Oil is Mobil 1 5w30, filter is a Motorcraft FL-500S: As you can see, the fuel is quite high and the oil is diluted. I ran into this on several UOAs I had done on the 2011 F-150 I previously had, but it was never this high. So I decided to take it in to the dealer to get it checked out while still under warranty. The service writer was puzzled about why I took the vehicle in, since it was running fine, and he'd never even heard of a UOA. Regardless, they agreed to look at it. This is what they told me in response: So, "It's supposed to be like that". I'm not really satisfied with that, but I'm going to let it go for now and keep doing UOAs and using a 5k OCI. At least it's in their system that I raised the issue. Will report back if anything changes.
"They ALL do that, the factory knows about it" (They'll fix it for next years vehicles) You, on the other hand, are SOL.
 
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Originally Posted By: BobThe
His calcium is at ~1000ppm. What do you consider a low calcium formula? I went running through the UOA's here and see all sorts of (X)W-30 oils with calcium readings in the 2 and 3k range. Regular M1, M1EP and M1 0W-30AFE all look to have calcium around 1k.
Virtus_Probi was referring to M1 0w40 being a calcium-heavy formula, not the M1 5w30 used in the UOA here.
 
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: BobThe
His calcium is at ~1000ppm. What do you consider a low calcium formula? I went running through the UOA's here and see all sorts of (X)W-30 oils with calcium readings in the 2 and 3k range. Regular M1, M1EP and M1 0W-30AFE all look to have calcium around 1k.
Virtus_Probi was referring to M1 0w40 being a calcium-heavy formula, not the M1 5w30 used in the UOA here.
Well that certainly makes more sense. blush
 
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Ford waking up one day realizing there is such thing called direct injection, putting in the car and not paying attention on last 15 years of development. Whoever drives Ecoboost needs to stick to Euro grade oils.
 
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