2013 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi / 4,500 miles / RP HPS 5w20

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Mar 13, 2020
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Location
Ottawa, KS
Thought I'd share this UOA for my Hemi with rising copper levels. Iron is low so I'm not worried about the dreaded cam/lifters but apparently there's a bushing that is wearing excessively. Any thoughts you have are appreciated. I don't really notice any weird noises other than an occasional irregular tick now and then.
The truck is a daily driver that tows about half its max load about once a month on average. Some idling, but nothing like sitting in traffic in a city every day.

Last year someone said I'd see an oil pressure drop at idle or at higher RPM if bushing wear was an issue. Haven't seen that condition pop up when I occasionally check it while driving or when it's idling. Always around 30-35 psi at idle and 50+ when RPM is >1000.
 

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What's the lubricant selection history here? The HEMI's often throw copper if fitted with an oil cooler. First UOA on my SRT has copper at 126, our truck is down to 32 after about 45,000 miles.

Oils with aggressive chemistry, particularly those with esters, often bring copper up due to chelation.
 

Possible sources of high Copper levels​

ICopper is a soft malleable metal that is used in a wide variety of applications. It is non-abrasive and helps prevent wear. The appearance of Copper in a used oil analysis should not be cause for alarm or repair unless other abrasive wear metal such as iron, aluminum, chromium, etc. are present at higher than normal levels. There are several possible sources for high Copper levels. Leaching as mentioned before from oil coolers, leaks from cooling systems, external contaminates, an oil additive, or from excessive wear. In all of these cases, other metals, materials and contaminates will be present.

It’s a mystery why just your copper is increasingly rising
 
What's the lubricant selection history here? The HEMI's often throw copper if fitted with an oil cooler. First UOA on my SRT has copper at 126, our truck is down to 32 after about 45,000 miles.

Oils with aggressive chemistry, particularly those with esters, often bring copper up due to chelation.
Pretty much nothing but Royal Purple HPS 5w20 or 5w30 since purchase at 82k miles. It's at 121k now. I don't know if the RP High PErformance Street I've been using has "aggressive chemistry" but that could be it I guess.
 

Possible sources of high Copper levels​

ICopper is a soft malleable metal that is used in a wide variety of applications. It is non-abrasive and helps prevent wear. The appearance of Copper in a used oil analysis should not be cause for alarm or repair unless other abrasive wear metal such as iron, aluminum, chromium, etc. are present at higher than normal levels. There are several possible sources for high Copper levels. Leaching as mentioned before from oil coolers, leaks from cooling systems, external contaminates, an oil additive, or from excessive wear. In all of these cases, other metals, materials and contaminates will be present.

It’s a mystery why just your copper is increasingly rising

Thanks for the input! I haven't put a new oil cooler on it or anything like that, though I did replace the heater core and radiator recently. Looks like it's running good then.
 
Pretty much nothing but Royal Purple HPS 5w20 or 5w30 since purchase at 82k miles. It's at 121k now. I don't know if the RP High PErformance Street I've been using has "aggressive chemistry" but that could be it I guess.
So, the first UOA, was that RP? Or was the first use of RP the 2nd one, where copper jumped?

Also, does your engine have the oil cooler above the oil filter?
 
So, the first UOA, was that RP? Or was the first use of RP the 2nd one, where copper jumped?

Also, does your engine have the oil cooler above the oil filter?
No, the first one was with whatever the dealer put in it when I bought it. Everything else was Royal Purple High Performance Street. I ran O'Reilly full synthetic one time, right after the second UOA that shows on the report. That might be why copper was consistent between the 2nd and 3rd reports, then it went up as I kept using RP HPS over and over.

I'll have to look at the engine to see if it has an oil cooler above the filter. I don't think there is, as I haven't noticed coolant lines running to that area.
 
No, the first one was with whatever the dealer put in it when I bought it. Everything else was Royal Purple High Performance Street. I ran O'Reilly full synthetic one time, right after the second UOA that shows on the report. That might be why copper was consistent between the 2nd and 3rd reports, then it went up as I kept using RP HPS over and over.

I'll have to look at the engine to see if it has an oil cooler above the filter. I don't think there is, as I haven't noticed coolant lines running to that area.
OK, please look. As I noted, it's very common for the oil cooler to leach copper. IIRC, the HPS product is what resulted in the term "Royal Sulphur" per @buster I believe it was many moons ago. They use/used a sulphated ester, so that could be what's causing the copper leaching, if that's all that is.

Easy way to test would be to change oils, if the copper starts to go down, well, you know that's all it was.
 
OK, please look. As I noted, it's very common for the oil cooler to leach copper. IIRC, the HPS product is what resulted in the term "Royal Sulphur" per @buster I believe it was many moons ago. They use/used a sulphated ester, so that could be what's causing the copper leaching, if that's all that is.

Easy way to test would be to change oils, if the copper starts to go down, well, you know that's all it was.
That would explain it! Weird that Blackstone doesn't know about it.... or maybe not weird idk.
I see you have a couple of Hemis in your fleet. What's a good place to get that Super Car oil if I want to try that for awhile? Or would you suggest something else like PUP?
 
That would explain it! Weird that Blackstone doesn't know about it.... or maybe not weird idk.
I see you have a couple of Hemis in your fleet. What's a good place to get that Super Car oil if I want to try that for awhile? Or would you suggest something else like PUP?
You can buy it from the @High Performance Lubricants web store:

There's a BITOG discount code.

I'm a big fan of HPL, their customer service is second to none, as the owner is an active participant on this forum. You won't find another oil company as open and honest about their formulations as these guys.
 
You can buy it from the @High Performance Lubricants web store:

There's a BITOG discount code.

I'm a big fan of HPL, their customer service is second to none, as the owner is an active participant on this forum. You won't find another oil company as open and honest about their formulations as these guys.
Thanks man. Gonna have to figure out if it's in my budget haha. Appreciate the info either way.
 
^ good call could very well be.
@OVERKILL @buster
Do you guys think that Royal Purple HMX would have the same sulfur compounds that would chelate the copper? It looks like they are quite different from the looks of this VOA from 2015.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/royal-purple-hmx-5w-30-voa-vs-hps-5w-30-voa.243997/

If you think it's still gonna cause copper issues, I think I'm just gonna go with some O'Reilly brand and see how that runs.
Thanks for your input!
 
@OVERKILL @buster
Do you guys think that Royal Purple HMX would have the same sulfur compounds that would chelate the copper? It looks like they are quite different from the looks of this VOA from 2015.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/royal-purple-hmx-5w-30-voa-vs-hps-5w-30-voa.243997/

If you think it's still gonna cause copper issues, I think I'm just gonna go with some O'Reilly brand and see how that runs.
Thanks for your input!

Run it and see, that's the only way you can find out. I've used both products - HMX and the HPS series of oils with no issues.
 
@OVERKILL @buster
Do you guys think that Royal Purple HMX would have the same sulfur compounds that would chelate the copper? It looks like they are quite different from the looks of this VOA from 2015.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/royal-purple-hmx-5w-30-voa-vs-hps-5w-30-voa.243997/

If you think it's still gonna cause copper issues, I think I'm just gonna go with some O'Reilly brand and see how that runs.
Thanks for your input!
I'll preface this with the fact I'm not a big fan of RP. If HPL wasn't in the budget, I'd run Mobil 1, if I wanted something more boutique, I'd just order AMSOIL.

This wasn't confidence inspiring:

@RDY4WAR unfortunately echo'd what was shown in that picture with a similar experience. I'm not sure if this is a relatively recent change in the product or what the mechanism in play here is, but it certainly isn't something I'd want to experience with my vehicle.
 
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