2012 Honda cr-v oil problem

[Bill7]

I started using 5w40 Euro in my CR-V and it uses significantly less oil than everything from 0w20 to 5w30.

Supertech does the job nicely but I’m sure Pennzoil or QA 5w40 would be similar.

I found a Quaker State 5 quart jug of Euro ACEA A3/B4 5W-40 on Walmart for $22.97.

Robot or human?

If ever there was a sleeper oil, it's this one.
I've learned not to think of oils in terms of viscosity (0W-20, 5W-30, 5W-40 for example), but instead to think of oil
in terms of HTHS. HTHS #'s >= 3.5 is optimal for engine wear protection under extreme service.
Google this: HTHS wear graph.

Perhaps a good combination is 3.5 quarts Quaker State Euro 5W-40 + 1 quart HPL Engine Cleaner.
Only draw back of this combination is it wouldn't be high mileage oil which treats the oil seals to help prevent internal and external oil leaks.

 

[OVERKILL]

For any car with low tension piston rings, which is probably most cases 2008 or newer, it's a good idea to do the extra maintenance

As we've previously discussed, lower/low tension rings long pre-date 2008. The J35A6 and J35A7 (VCM) engines used in your Odyssey were used right up to 2010. Only the VCM variant has a reputation for consumption, which isn't due to the ring choice but rather the VCM system design.

 

[Bill7]

As we've previously discussed, lower/low tension rings long pre-date 2008. The J35A6 and J35A7 (VCM) engines used in your Odyssey were used right up to 2010. Only the VCM variant has a reputation for consumption, which isn't due to the ring choice but rather the VCM system design.

There are 2 versions of VCM. VCM version 1 (engine runs on either 3 or 6 cylinders), and version 2 (engine runs on either 3, 4, or 6 cylinders). VCM Version 2 is the version with the oil burning defect. Luckily my vehicles have version 1.

Low tension piston rings are used for a noble cause - to reduce engine drag by having less pressure wipe the cylinder walls of oil (similar in concept to designing a windshield wiper using less foreceful contact with the windshield to wipe the rain). You get higher gas mileage due to this lower piston ring drag. But the downside is the oil control rings on the low tension piston rings need to be kept clean, so they don't seize up and stop working. So you need high quality oil or shorter OCI, or both. The use of lowest quality bulk oil (sometimes conventional oil) at dealerships, mechanics, and quick lube places combined with extended OCI's might be contributing to this oil control ring seizing up problem.

 

[OVERKILL]

There are 2 versions of VCM. VCM version 1 (engine runs on either 3 or 6 cylinders), and version 2 (engine runs on either 3, 4, or 6 cylinders). VCM Version 2 is the version with the oil burning defect. Luckily my vehicles have version 1.

Honda settles class-action lawsuit over oil-burning V6s - Autoblog

Although we hadn't heard of this issue before, Automotive News reports that Honda has agreed to settle a massive class-action lawsuit brought against it for engine trouble potentially affecting nearly 1.6 million vehicles. The lawsuit includes Accord (2008-12), Odyssey (2008-13), Pilot

www.autoblog.com

Automotive News reports that Honda has agreed to settle a massive class-action lawsuit brought against it for engine trouble potentially affecting nearly 1.6 million vehicles. The lawsuit includes Accord (2008-12), Odyssey (2008-13), Pilot (2009-13) and Crosstour (2010-13) models equipped with the 3.5-liter V6 with Variable Cylinder Management, which might experience engine misfire, excessive oil burning and premature spark plug fouling issues.

That's the same engine as you have, the J35A7, used right through 2010.
Here's a thread by @The Critic that shows that same engine, that also consumes oil, and it's UGLY:

07 Odyssey Valve Cover Photos and Cam Scoring

2007 Odyssey, 168K. This is the J35A7 engine with VCM. Second owner. Oil changes have been done per the OLM with conventional. The engine consumes a lot of oil and does not get topped off. Vehicle was experiencing misfires under load. Had a P0300 and various cylinder specific misfires. Also...

bobistheoilguy.com

Low tension piston rings are used for a noble cause - to reduce engine drag by having less pressure wipe the cylinder walls of oil (similar in concept to designing a windshield wiper using less foreceful contact with the windshield to wipe the rain). You get higher gas mileage due to this lower piston ring drag. But the downside is the oil control rings on the low tension piston rings need to be kept clean, so they don't seize up and stop working. So you need high quality oil or shorter OCI, or both. The use of lowest quality bulk oil (sometimes conventional oil) at dealerships, mechanics, and quick lube places combined with extended OCI's might be contributing to this oil control ring seizing up problem.

We've discussed low tension rings before, as I noted. They've been used in many applications that never have dire oil consumption problems. It's not a design choice that is going to, on its own, result in consumption. The problem is proper implementation, which some marques have royally buggered up. Unfortunately, it is far too often scapegoated when a brand of a certain "repute" fouls up and produces a lemon.

 

[walterjay]

No matter what I would use a 5-30 HM oil.

 

[Bill7]

Honda settles class-action lawsuit over oil-burning V6s - Autoblog

Although we hadn't heard of this issue before, Automotive News reports that Honda has agreed to settle a massive class-action lawsuit brought against it for engine trouble potentially affecting nearly 1.6 million vehicles. The lawsuit includes Accord (2008-12), Odyssey (2008-13), Pilot

www.autoblog.com

That's the same engine as you have, the J35A7, used right through 2010.
Here's a thread by @The Critic that shows that same engine, that also consumes oil, and it's UGLY:

07 Odyssey Valve Cover Photos and Cam Scoring

2007 Odyssey, 168K. This is the J35A7 engine with VCM. Second owner. Oil changes have been done per the OLM with conventional. The engine consumes a lot of oil and does not get topped off. Vehicle was experiencing misfires under load. Had a P0300 and various cylinder specific misfires. Also...

bobistheoilguy.com

We've discussed low tension rings before, as I noted. They've been used in many applications that never have dire oil consumption problems. It's not a design choice that is going to, on its own, result in consumption. The problem is proper implementation, which some marques have royally buggered up. Unfortunately, it is far too often scapegoated when a brand of a certain "repute" fouls up and produces a lemon.

Thanks Overkill for the very informative posts. I'm taking a good look into the articles you posted.
The 2007 Odyssey you mentioned has VCM 1. VCM 2 started in 2008.
The 2007 Odyssey link you posted may be a separate issue with OLM being too aggressive with it's longer intervals with conventional oil.

See this excellent post #17 from Trav in this thread.

2014 Odyssey Sludge/Varnish

Did an oil change on our 14 odyssey tonight. It is closing in on 70k miles. It is my wife’s dd, so most use is extremely short drives, a mile or two at a time. We also use it for family trips of course. It has had the VCM disabled since maybe a thousand miles. These last two OCIs were Rotella...

bobistheoilguy.com

Trav mentions that: with the 2006/2007 engines 3k OCI with full synthetic is recommended, 4k is pushing it, 5k is out of the question unless you muzzle the VCM. The oil life monitor in my 2006/2007 Odysseys recommends 5k to 7k OCI with conventional specified in owners manual.
So the 2007 Odyssey's issue you mentioned may have more to do with the front 3 cylinder heads getting excessively hot and cooking the oil.. Conventional oil just can't cope with that with 5k to 7k OCI's in these engines.

I think the oil burning defect started in 2008 with the adent of VCM 2. Engine codes with 2007 and 2008 Odyssey's may have stayed the same, but the VCM changed.

 

[OVERKILL]

Thanks Overkill for the very informative posts. I'm taking a good look into the articles you posted.
The 2007 Odyssey you mentioned has VCM 1. VCM 2 started in 2008.
The 2007 Odyssey link you posted may be a separate issue with OLM being too aggressive with it's longer intervals with synthetic oil.

Yes, it's the same engine, they updated the VCM system to VCM-2 for 2008. The rest of the engine is unchanged, meaning the piston rings didn't get swapped out to lower tension ones when they updated the VCM.

See this excellent post #17 from Trav in this thread.

2014 Odyssey Sludge/Varnish

Did an oil change on our 14 odyssey tonight. It is closing in on 70k miles. It is my wife’s dd, so most use is extremely short drives, a mile or two at a time. We also use it for family trips of course. It has had the VCM disabled since maybe a thousand miles. These last two OCIs were Rotella...

bobistheoilguy.com

Very familiar with Trav's posts on the issue.

Trav mentions that: with the 2006/2007 engines 3k OCI with full synthetic is recommended, 4k is pushing it, 5k is out of the question unless you muzzle the VCM. The oil life monitor in my 2006/2007 Odysseys recommends 5k to 7k OCI with conventional specified in owners manual.
So the 2007 Odyssey's issue you mentioned may have more to do with the front 3 cylinder heads getting excessively hot and cooking the oil.. Conventional oil just can't cope with that with 5k to 7k OCI's in these engines.

Trav recommended M1 0W-40 for them due to the coking and varnish they were prone to, which led to considerable oil consumption among other issues.

I think the oil burning defect started in 2008 with the adent of VCM 2. Engine codes with 2007 and 2008 Odyssey's may have stayed the same, but the VCM changed.

Yes, Honda's VCM implementation is the primary culprit behind oil consumption, not the use of lower tension rings. All the VCM engine are affected, though VCM-2 appears to be more prone; appears to be worse. Still, @The Critic's pictures show what can happen with a VCM-1 variant. Note his comment in the opening post: "consumes a lot of oil".

 

[Bill7]

Yes, it's the same engine, they updated the VCM system to VCM-2 for 2008. The rest of the engine is unchanged, meaning the piston rings didn't get swapped out to lower tension ones when they updated the VCM.

Very familiar with Trav's posts on the issue.

Trav recommended M1 0W-40 for them due to the coking and varnish they were prone to, which led to considerable oil consumption among other issues.

Yes, Honda's VCM implementation is the primary culprit behind oil consumption, not the use of lower tension rings. All the VCM engine are affected, though VCM-2 appears to be more prone; appears to be worse. Still, @The Critic's pictures show what can happen with a VCM-1 variant. Note his comment in the opening post: "consumes a lot of oil".

Yes, he mentioned the same engine was speced for 40 weight oils in Germany.
I'm debating running a 5W-40 oil in them. Quaker State has an interesting low priced 5W-40 Acea A3/B4 5 quart jug - Sold on walmart for $22.97.

Robot or human?

Assuming my engine's might have similar sludge/varnish, would using HPL Engine Cleaner followed in next oil change by HP PCMO oil
be a good choice. I wasn't sure if all that varnish being removed by the Esters in HPL EC and PCMO could clog either PCV valve, oil screen, oil passageways, etc. I haven't seen any deterimental issues like that in other people's experiences with HPL's Esters, but these VCM engines can have more varnish / sludge than most engines.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yes, he mentioned the same engine was speced for 40 weight oils in Germany.
I'm debating running a 5W-40 oil in them. Quaker State has an interesting low priced 5W-40 Acea A3/B4 5 quart jug - Sold on walmart for $22.97.

Robot or human?

Assuming my engine's might have similar sludge/varnish, would using HPL Engine Cleaner followed in next oil change by HP PCMO oil
be a good choice. I wasn't sure if all that varnish being removed by the Esters in HPL EC and PCMO could clog either PCV valve, oil screen, oil passageways, etc. I haven't seen any deterimental issues like that in other people's experiences with HPL's Esters, but these VCM engines can have more varnish / sludge than most engines.

If you suspect you might have varnish, a short OCI with the engine cleaner like 3K and then checking your filter will probably allow you to confirm yay or nay. I think that's a good idea.

 

[wlk]

Yes, he mentioned the same engine was speced for 40 weight oils in Germany.
I'm debating running a 5W-40 oil in them. Quaker State has an interesting low priced 5W-40 Acea A3/B4 5 quart jug - Sold on walmart for $22.97.

Robot or human?

Assuming my engine's might have similar sludge/varnish, would using HPL Engine Cleaner followed in next oil change by HP PCMO oil
be a good choice. I wasn't sure if all that varnish being removed by the Esters in HPL EC and PCMO could clog either PCV valve, oil screen, oil passageways, etc. I haven't seen any deterimental issues like that in other people's experiences with HPL's Esters, but these VCM engines can have more varnish / sludge than most engines.

The HPL EC30 did not do a whole lot for the heavy varnish in my Element k24 but it did remove the sludge in it. So I would not worry about the varnish as it barely lightened it in my motor. I would just change the filter every 1500 miles and definitely run it for 5k mile oci. I ran it for 5k in all 3 of my vehicles. I would also second a 0/5w40 oil and have several QSFS Euro 5w40 waiting to go after running the current run of Motul Xclean 5w40

 

[OVERKILL]

The HPL EC30 did not do a whole lot for the heavy varnish in my Element k24 but it did remove the sludge in it. So I would not worry about the varnish as it barely lightened it in my motor. I would just change the filter every 1500 miles and definitely run it for 5k mile oci. I ran it for 5k in all 3 of my vehicles. I would also second a 0/5w40 oil and have several QSFS Euro 5w40 waiting to go after running the current run of Motul Xclean 5w40

It takes a lot longer to remove varnish, as the layers basically need to be stripped off and varnish is very hard. So yeah, it won't rapidly remove that, it takes significant time.