2010 Ford Fusion 2.5L I-4 rod knock when cold

[cartmanea]

I have a 2010 Fusion with the 2.5L I-4 with 91k miles. The engine notoriously has a noisy valvetrain, and that is not what I am concerned about. I drove the car only twice in the last two weeks, both times startup was after a week of not running and temps were about 25F. Upon startup, I had a noticeable rod knock until the oil warmed up and circulated a bit. I know what a rod knock sounds like, I replaced rod bearings in my previous car (Dodge Intrepid) because it developed a knock at 150k miles.

I'm running Amsoil XL 5w-20, same for about 4 oil changes now. Previous oil changes I was adding one bottle of ZDDP Maxx which quieted down the valve train and I never heard the rod knock on startup (granted it never sat a week before). From UOAs, the ZDDP greatly reduced my wear metal numbers from the previous changes without it. Could this additive have been masking the rod knock, or is it just because it sat a week and all the oil drained out?

Should I go back to using the additive? Any other additives recommended? I've been thinking of trying Archoil.

Also, with 91k, would it be advisable to switch to a 5w-30 instead of the specified 5w-20? The car was previously a lease and fleet maintained, so I'm wondering if they had run 5-30 a lot and did some bearing damage. The engine was quieter (less valvetrain noise) before I did the first oil change to 5w-20, which is why I'm wondering if they ran something heavier.

Thanks for any input!

 

[Velo_Fello]

I have this same problem on an old Dodge Caravan 3.3L.

You need to use an oil with esters in it.

That sort of oil sticks to the engine internals and prevents a dry startup. I believe Royal Purple has around 10-15% esters.

There's an interesting technical paper on esters on the home page of this site.

Also, check the oil filter has a good anti-drainback valve.

 

[tig1]

My 07 Duratechs has none of the problems you speak of. There shouldn't be any valve train noise as it's a cam over bucket design. No lifters. Now the Fusion has VVT so maybe the noise is coming from that system. What's with the rod problems you are having now and in the Dodge? Maybe the additives are a problem. I know M1 says don't use put anything in their oil. Ask Pablo on this issue.

 

[Bluestream]

Are you sure its not piston slap? Many newer engines have short piston skirts, and will make noise when cold. Valve train noise (with the exception of lifters) usually does not go away when warmed up.

 

[stranger706]

No need for 5w30. Those engines have great oil pressure with 5w20. Great as in, 100+ psi on a cold start and 15+ psi during hot summer idle.

I would try different oil brands, just to see. If it were me I'd try PYB first.

Are you using a Motorcraft oil filter as well? FL910s I believe?

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: tig1
What's with the rod problems you are having now and in the Dodge? Maybe the additives are a problem.


My thoughts too, or else, and I consider this more likely, neither one had rod knock but instead have piston slap which is MUCH more common in today's engines.

At any rate, no 2010 engine (or 1995 engine for that matter) should need a ZDDP booster or any other oil additive of any sort.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yes, rod knock doesn't normally go away, rather, it gets LOUDER as the oil thins.

 

[Pablo]

What oil filter are you using?

 

[partspro]

Another vote for piston slap and a second for looking into a different brand of oil filter. Not all anti-drain back valves are created equal. I seriously question whether 5w30 could cause any bearing damage.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to try a fill of 5w30 and give us your feedback.

 

[cartmanea]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Are you sure its not piston slap? Many newer engines have short piston skirts, and will make noise when cold. Valve train noise (with the exception of lifters) usually does not go away when warmed up.


I'm pretty sure it's not piston slap, sounds like one rod knocking. It doesn't do it every cold start, only when it's sat for several days and more oil drains out of the bearings.

Originally Posted By: stranger706
No need for 5w30. Those engines have great oil pressure with 5w20. Great as in, 100+ psi on a cold start and 15+ psi during hot summer idle.

I would try different oil brands, just to see. If it were me I'd try PYB first.

Are you using a Motorcraft oil filter as well? FL910s I believe?


What's PYB? Currently running the Amsoil filter, going to switch back to Motorcraft on the next change since I don't extend my OCI, it gets changed every 5k.

Originally Posted By: partspro
Another vote for piston slap and a second for looking into a different brand of oil filter. Not all anti-drain back valves are created equal. I seriously question whether 5w30 could cause any bearing damage.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to try a fill of 5w30 and give us your feedback.


I've heard that engines designed with tight tolerances for 5w-20 won't get enough lubrication with a thicker oil, but that could be [censored].

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: cartmanea

I've heard that engines designed with tight tolerances for 5w-20 won't get enough lubrication with a thicker oil, but that could be B-S.


It is...

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Yes, rod knock doesn't normally go away, rather, it gets LOUDER as the oil thins.


^^^^ This ^^^ A rod knock will get worse as the oil thins... It is possible for a loose bearing to knock on startup till it gets oil but that's ONLY going to be for a few seconds at most...

 

[addyguy]

A 2010, even with 91k, should NOT have rod knock problems.

Just try a different oil - the PYB suggestion is a good one - lots of moly/boron in it, tends to quiet engines.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Pennzoil conventional with Motorcraft filter. Won't hurt to use 5w-30. They use thicker than that in Europe.

 

[cartmanea]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
A 2010, even with 91k, should NOT have rod knock problems.
Just try a different oil - the PYB suggestion is a good one - lots of moly/boron in it, tends to quiet engines.


Again, what is PYB?

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Pennzoil conventional with Motorcraft filter. Won't hurt to use 5w-30. They use thicker than that in Europe.


Never been a fan of Pennzoil, I'll try Mobil, Valvoline, or Motorcraft first. From doing some reading, there's no real benefit to going with the thicker oil, so I'll stick with 5w-20.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: stranger706
No need for 5w30. Those engines have great oil pressure with 5w20. Great as in, 100+ psi on a cold start and 15+ psi during hot summer idle.


Oil pressure is great, but is the oil still gonna lubricate the engine with its water like viscosity? I'm thinking it would be nice to fill in that space between the rod bearing and rod journal to prevent rod knock; can you do that with 5W-20 ?

 

[ChiTDI]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
What oil filter are you using?


I would look here for the source of the problem as well.
I'd suggest Motorcraft, and for the record PYB is Pennzoil Yellow Bottle.

 

[Klutch9]

One thing to keep in mind is that the Duratec line of engines has very loud injector pulses, especially when cold (many engines suffer from this nowadays). I believe in the Fusion, there is a foam-like wrap over the fuel rail to somewhat quiet the noise. Are you sure you aren't hearing the injectors pulsing? I have 2 different Duratecs and have never heard of any rod-knock problems with these motors.

 

[A_Harman]

From the symptoms you describe, it is more likely piston slap.

 

[Capa]

PYB is Pennzoil yellow bottle. A lot of people here hear differences in oil used. Just change to another brand and see if there is a difference in the noise.

 

[cartmanea]

I'll change oil and filter brand after the next change, probably both to Motorcraft. Its definitely not injectors I'm hearing, those sound like a fast "click click click" and the "rod bearing" noise I'm hearing is a deeper clunk.

Again, it doesn't do it every cold startup, only when it's sat for a week or so and gets very cold. I've been running this oil and filter for almost a year and never heard the sound before, even when 30F and after sitting a few days.