Looks very good outside ,but interior is hideous
jmo
jmo
2010 Camaro
- Thread starter steve20
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we had a black with tungsten stripe 2008 GT500 at my work that i was really interested in purchasing. Ford does not do employee price plans on SVT products. i went to out General Manager and said that i would be glad to pay MSRP and purchase any ESP plan he wanted and keep the dealer plate frames on the car (which i loathe in any form). he said he would rather let it sit until they got their $10k markup than sell it to an employee for MSRP. there it sat for another year until they dealer traded it.
Good luck getting the cracked nose covered under warranty.
Service Manager: When do you think this happened?
Owner: During the top-speed run I did yesterday at the track
Service Manager: Um, yeah...warranty void...abuse.
Service Manager: When do you think this happened?
Owner: During the top-speed run I did yesterday at the track
Service Manager: Um, yeah...warranty void...abuse.
Originally Posted By: crw
Then switch to a fixed price model, where a customer walks in and buys WHATEVER THEY WANT at a fixed price.
'cept in the good ol' US of A that is illegal. I think this covers it, but I'm not a lawyer
Then switch to a fixed price model, where a customer walks in and buys WHATEVER THEY WANT at a fixed price.
'cept in the good ol' US of A that is illegal. I think this covers it, but I'm not a lawyer
Isnt that how they did it at Saturn? I'm sure there were price differences depending on the region, but at a single dealership, all customer got the same price on similarly-equipped vehicles.
Originally Posted By: mpvue
Originally Posted By: crw
Then switch to a fixed price model, where a customer walks in and buys WHATEVER THEY WANT at a fixed price.
'cept in the good ol' US of A that is illegal. I think this covers it, but I'm not a lawyer
I think crw is talking about setting an MSRP and sticking to it rather than playing some kind of price haggle game with the customer. Nothing illegal about it, but I don't think GM has enough power over its dealership network to enforce it.
Originally Posted By: crw
Then switch to a fixed price model, where a customer walks in and buys WHATEVER THEY WANT at a fixed price.
'cept in the good ol' US of A that is illegal. I think this covers it, but I'm not a lawyer
I think crw is talking about setting an MSRP and sticking to it rather than playing some kind of price haggle game with the customer. Nothing illegal about it, but I don't think GM has enough power over its dealership network to enforce it.
99% of all Camaros will never see 150 MPH, but thats some awesome GM engineering.
This car will be around for 3 years MAX and then disappear just like he last Camaro design.
This car will be around for 3 years MAX and then disappear just like he last Camaro design.
Dealers can sell cars for whatever price they want to. Mfr's cannot tell dealers what the final selling price must be; dealers must be free to set their own price independent of mfr's demands. Anything less is a violation of the Sherman Act, Robinson-Patman Act or Clayton Act, all federal statutes that will put any company of any size in hot water almost immediately (see Microsoft/Windows/Internet Explorer anti trust violations).
I'll never understand why some people get so upset over dealer markups. So what if a dealer wants to make another 5 grand on top of sticker price? You don't have to pay it. I dunno, I've always found the people who complain the most are the very ones who can't afford it anyway. Those who have the money can decide whether or not they want to pay the markup. Those who don't have the money, well, let them be angry. They can't afford much more than that.
I'll never understand why some people get so upset over dealer markups. So what if a dealer wants to make another 5 grand on top of sticker price? You don't have to pay it. I dunno, I've always found the people who complain the most are the very ones who can't afford it anyway. Those who have the money can decide whether or not they want to pay the markup. Those who don't have the money, well, let them be angry. They can't afford much more than that.
Yes, that's what I mean. Here's your V6 Camaro, $22,999. Take it home today. Quit insulting the customer and make them play games with thousands of dollars at stake.
The current system is, "Gee, you are my valued customer. Now, I'm going to try to trick you into paying thousands of dollars more than you should."
That's why I say, "Get rid of ALL of the dealers." The future of your company is at stake! The dealers are, currently, agents unto themselves. They can do whatever they want, even if it is detrimental to GM. Most of what they do is detrimental to GM. Get rid of them, it's a model for a bygone era.
Then, bring back the ones who will agree to standards. Your "salesperson" will be a young freshly scrubbed college kid trying to pay for his own schooling, who gets a few hundred bucks for any car they move at the set price. They get paid the same if they sell an Aveo or an Avalanche. OK, of course that is simplistic, but it's the ground-work for a Revolution that will sell a lot of cars. Once that is established, realize that car prices are already inflated due to the need to give the dealers wiggle room, and room for incentives......... scrap all of that and sell the Camaro for $21,000. Then hire back all the autoworkers to build more cars, because you're going to sell lots more.
Currently, I won't go into a new car dealer, even to look. As soon as you do, they immediately start sizing you up for the kill. But if I know I can go into a place and not be treated like [censored], well, that place might get my business.
The current system is, "Gee, you are my valued customer. Now, I'm going to try to trick you into paying thousands of dollars more than you should."
That's why I say, "Get rid of ALL of the dealers." The future of your company is at stake! The dealers are, currently, agents unto themselves. They can do whatever they want, even if it is detrimental to GM. Most of what they do is detrimental to GM. Get rid of them, it's a model for a bygone era.
Then, bring back the ones who will agree to standards. Your "salesperson" will be a young freshly scrubbed college kid trying to pay for his own schooling, who gets a few hundred bucks for any car they move at the set price. They get paid the same if they sell an Aveo or an Avalanche. OK, of course that is simplistic, but it's the ground-work for a Revolution that will sell a lot of cars. Once that is established, realize that car prices are already inflated due to the need to give the dealers wiggle room, and room for incentives......... scrap all of that and sell the Camaro for $21,000. Then hire back all the autoworkers to build more cars, because you're going to sell lots more.
Currently, I won't go into a new car dealer, even to look. As soon as you do, they immediately start sizing you up for the kill. But if I know I can go into a place and not be treated like [censored], well, that place might get my business.
Why do I get upset? I suppose I shouldn't let it bother me. I don't have a stake in it. If you think this current business model will survive this depression... well, I don't think it will survive.
What happens when GM has spent all this money to make a new model, then, let's see, dealers do whatever the ---- they want to do, then three months into the program GM wonders why they're only selling half of what they had planned. Alarm bells go off, rebates start popping up, and the whole system is screwed because they have no control of how their products are sold.
Yes, I'm saying that automakers should bring the sales of their vehicles "in house". Those selling would be GM employees.
If that is illegal, well, I honestly don't know about that. It is fun to vent about it, however.
What happens when GM has spent all this money to make a new model, then, let's see, dealers do whatever the ---- they want to do, then three months into the program GM wonders why they're only selling half of what they had planned. Alarm bells go off, rebates start popping up, and the whole system is screwed because they have no control of how their products are sold.
Yes, I'm saying that automakers should bring the sales of their vehicles "in house". Those selling would be GM employees.
If that is illegal, well, I honestly don't know about that. It is fun to vent about it, however.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
he said he would rather let it sit until they got their $10k markup than sell it to an employee for MSRP. there it sat for another year until they dealer traded it.
Gotta love dealers like that. The dealers around here seem to love to go the extra mile but plenty of them in the metroplex should have been discontinued years ago because of their service.
I loved the Camaro until I read that if you're over 6' dont even bother test driving one.
he said he would rather let it sit until they got their $10k markup than sell it to an employee for MSRP. there it sat for another year until they dealer traded it.
Gotta love dealers like that. The dealers around here seem to love to go the extra mile but plenty of them in the metroplex should have been discontinued years ago because of their service.
I loved the Camaro until I read that if you're over 6' dont even bother test driving one.
Originally Posted By: bretfraz
Dealers can sell cars for whatever price they want to. Mfr's cannot tell dealers what the final selling price must be; dealers must be free to set their own price independent of mfr's demands. Anything less is a violation of the Sherman Act, Robinson-Patman Act or Clayton Act, all federal statutes that will put any company of any size in hot water almost immediately (see Microsoft/Windows/Internet Explorer anti trust violations).
I'll never understand why some people get so upset over dealer markups. So what if a dealer wants to make another 5 grand on top of sticker price? You don't have to pay it. I dunno, I've always found the people who complain the most are the very ones who can't afford it anyway. Those who have the money can decide whether or not they want to pay the markup. Those who don't have the money, well, let them be angry. They can't afford much more than that.
I'm not angry nor upset. I, like any other American with half a brain, will simply take my business elsewhere. Anybody who pays more than dealer invoice (not sticker, not the real dealer cost) for an American car (other than maybe a GT500 or a ZR-1) has more money than sense. Additional dealer markup is the reason a great car like the GTO was a failure, selling less than half what they could have sold.
I bought 4 of the last generation Camaros. The last one was a loaded B4C (V8, 6spd) with every option available except chrome wheels. I drove it off the lot for under $20k. Good luck at these prices, GM.
Dealers can sell cars for whatever price they want to. Mfr's cannot tell dealers what the final selling price must be; dealers must be free to set their own price independent of mfr's demands. Anything less is a violation of the Sherman Act, Robinson-Patman Act or Clayton Act, all federal statutes that will put any company of any size in hot water almost immediately (see Microsoft/Windows/Internet Explorer anti trust violations).
I'll never understand why some people get so upset over dealer markups. So what if a dealer wants to make another 5 grand on top of sticker price? You don't have to pay it. I dunno, I've always found the people who complain the most are the very ones who can't afford it anyway. Those who have the money can decide whether or not they want to pay the markup. Those who don't have the money, well, let them be angry. They can't afford much more than that.
I'm not angry nor upset. I, like any other American with half a brain, will simply take my business elsewhere. Anybody who pays more than dealer invoice (not sticker, not the real dealer cost) for an American car (other than maybe a GT500 or a ZR-1) has more money than sense. Additional dealer markup is the reason a great car like the GTO was a failure, selling less than half what they could have sold.
I bought 4 of the last generation Camaros. The last one was a loaded B4C (V8, 6spd) with every option available except chrome wheels. I drove it off the lot for under $20k. Good luck at these prices, GM.
The Camaro is OK except for the lack of headroom (as in all Camaros of the last 25 years or so). The local dealer is taking orders at MSRP, and is selling everything they can get their hands on. I prefer the Challenger, but it doesn't get very good gas mileage. The Mustang was a little cramped for me too and doesn't get good mileage. Reasonable mileage is something everyone should consider when buying a new car these days.
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
The Mustang was a little cramped for me too and doesn't get good mileage. Reasonable mileage is something everyone should consider when buying a new car these days.
Really?? My 08 Mustang GT averages 23.0 to 23.5 every tank on my 60 mile a day commute. Took a little 400 mile road trip to the coast last month and got 27.5 and 28.0 at 75 MPH down and back. I can sure live with that mileage especially when it comes with 300 hp of fun!
The Mustang was a little cramped for me too and doesn't get good mileage. Reasonable mileage is something everyone should consider when buying a new car these days.
Really?? My 08 Mustang GT averages 23.0 to 23.5 every tank on my 60 mile a day commute. Took a little 400 mile road trip to the coast last month and got 27.5 and 28.0 at 75 MPH down and back. I can sure live with that mileage especially when it comes with 300 hp of fun!
You're getting better than EPA then. A lot of cars do. That is pretty good mileage.
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
The Camaro is OK except for the lack of headroom (as in all Camaros of the last 25 years or so). The local dealer is taking orders at MSRP, and is selling everything they can get their hands on. I prefer the Challenger, but it doesn't get very good gas mileage. The Mustang was a little cramped for me too and doesn't get good mileage. Reasonable mileage is something everyone should consider when buying a new car these days.
it's all in how you drive it; the overdrive gears in these cars are silly steep, high 20, almost 30mpg is common. now, if you need to take off from every stoplight like you're racing, well...
The Camaro is OK except for the lack of headroom (as in all Camaros of the last 25 years or so). The local dealer is taking orders at MSRP, and is selling everything they can get their hands on. I prefer the Challenger, but it doesn't get very good gas mileage. The Mustang was a little cramped for me too and doesn't get good mileage. Reasonable mileage is something everyone should consider when buying a new car these days.
it's all in how you drive it; the overdrive gears in these cars are silly steep, high 20, almost 30mpg is common. now, if you need to take off from every stoplight like you're racing, well...
Originally Posted By: crw
Yes, that's what I mean. Here's your V6 Camaro, $22,999. Take it home today. Quit insulting the customer and make them play games with thousands of dollars at stake.
The current system is, "Gee, you are my valued customer. Now, I'm going to try to trick you into paying thousands of dollars more than you should."
That's why I say, "Get rid of ALL of the dealers."
I loathe the whole "car dealer culture" that seems to exist. Why can't we be left alone to buy cars like we buy any other goods? No, we have to be assaulted by an army of salesmen the minute we get near the lot. Ugh.
When we bought my wife's PT (used) last fall, it was at a no-hassle dealer (not CarMax, an independent but with a similar philosophy). I found the car one day, walked around and crawled under it and had to go IN the building to find someone to open it up. He gave me a key and said "look it over" and left me alone. I did, and told him I'd bring my wife back. We came back, got a key, took a test drive- NO hassle at all, no insistence on riding along, no nothing. We went in to talk and told him that we'd like to do a little comparison shopping, but we'd probably be back and left. We drove to a used car dealership affiliated with a big Chevy dealer because they listed 3 PTs on the lot. Before I opened the door of the Jeep, 3 salesmen were "helping" me. I told them we wanted to drive one of these PTs (showed him their internet inventory printout) and was told, "Oh, only one of those is left, can I interest you in an HHR? Its the same thing."
After a half hour of incessant wrangling and repeated urgings to take a look at an HHR instead (they had about 20 on the used car lot- says a lot for how much owners like the dang things), they finally let us drive one of the PTs they still had. We knew immediately that the first dealership had the car we wanted, so we started to leave... but no. They "invited" us into the office to "talk deals" because they "knew they could beat" the other price. We sat through the whole spiel of "what can I do to get you in this car today?" (I gave a price $1k lower than the other dealer because I didn't want that color). Then we went through the deal of him "talking to his manager" and coming back with a number written on a sheet of paper which he folded and slid across the table (Oooh, a big-shot deal-maker). Of course they came NOWHERE close, and ended by insinuating that they do SO much better at prepping cars and "assuring quality for us" that they simply can't match the other guys price because "he probably doesn't do anything to the car." ([censored] RIGHT, I'm thinking- he doesn't hide stuff about how its been abused before.)
To cut short (too late, I guess..) we went back to the first dealer and had an agreement in place within 20 minutes had the car the next day. And its a GREAT little car because it wasn't cosmetically enhanced by an unscrupulous dealer to hide its shortcomings. Yes, I had to buy new tires the week after we got it- but I *knew* it needed tires the first time I saw it and I got to pick the ones I wanted rather than pay a dealer's premium and get stuck with the tires *he* could get on the cheap.
Yes, that's what I mean. Here's your V6 Camaro, $22,999. Take it home today. Quit insulting the customer and make them play games with thousands of dollars at stake.
The current system is, "Gee, you are my valued customer. Now, I'm going to try to trick you into paying thousands of dollars more than you should."
That's why I say, "Get rid of ALL of the dealers."
I loathe the whole "car dealer culture" that seems to exist. Why can't we be left alone to buy cars like we buy any other goods? No, we have to be assaulted by an army of salesmen the minute we get near the lot. Ugh.
When we bought my wife's PT (used) last fall, it was at a no-hassle dealer (not CarMax, an independent but with a similar philosophy). I found the car one day, walked around and crawled under it and had to go IN the building to find someone to open it up. He gave me a key and said "look it over" and left me alone. I did, and told him I'd bring my wife back. We came back, got a key, took a test drive- NO hassle at all, no insistence on riding along, no nothing. We went in to talk and told him that we'd like to do a little comparison shopping, but we'd probably be back and left. We drove to a used car dealership affiliated with a big Chevy dealer because they listed 3 PTs on the lot. Before I opened the door of the Jeep, 3 salesmen were "helping" me. I told them we wanted to drive one of these PTs (showed him their internet inventory printout) and was told, "Oh, only one of those is left, can I interest you in an HHR? Its the same thing."
After a half hour of incessant wrangling and repeated urgings to take a look at an HHR instead (they had about 20 on the used car lot- says a lot for how much owners like the dang things), they finally let us drive one of the PTs they still had. We knew immediately that the first dealership had the car we wanted, so we started to leave... but no. They "invited" us into the office to "talk deals" because they "knew they could beat" the other price. We sat through the whole spiel of "what can I do to get you in this car today?" (I gave a price $1k lower than the other dealer because I didn't want that color). Then we went through the deal of him "talking to his manager" and coming back with a number written on a sheet of paper which he folded and slid across the table (Oooh, a big-shot deal-maker). Of course they came NOWHERE close, and ended by insinuating that they do SO much better at prepping cars and "assuring quality for us" that they simply can't match the other guys price because "he probably doesn't do anything to the car." ([censored] RIGHT, I'm thinking- he doesn't hide stuff about how its been abused before.)
To cut short (too late, I guess..) we went back to the first dealer and had an agreement in place within 20 minutes had the car the next day. And its a GREAT little car because it wasn't cosmetically enhanced by an unscrupulous dealer to hide its shortcomings. Yes, I had to buy new tires the week after we got it- but I *knew* it needed tires the first time I saw it and I got to pick the ones I wanted rather than pay a dealer's premium and get stuck with the tires *he* could get on the cheap.
Quote:
Before this gets out of hand, IIRC this was a pre-production problem, not a problem with the final production cars...
How many other problems will there be with the all new Camaro ?
Before this gets out of hand, IIRC this was a pre-production problem, not a problem with the final production cars...
How many other problems will there be with the all new Camaro ?
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