2009 Ford F-150 / 5.4 156k / 0W20 QSUD 4,700mi

[alius123]

Hi everyone, I've been a long time lurker. I have heard the argument for and against 5w20 and 5w30 for the F150 due to the cam phaser problems, so thought I'd post my results. The QSUD is considered a very stout 0W20 from what I've read online, which the results show it held up well. TBH, I thought it wouldn't because my gas mileage started to drop around 1300 miles and I thought for sure it wouldn't hold up as well. I don't know if I should be concerned about the flash point though since it's below the >385 spec for averages on the report. The UOA reply didn't say anything about it though, and said I could go 7k. Don't think I would ever go above 5k though. Right now I have 5W20 PPPP to see how the lower weight works for PPP in comparison.

Code
OIL PPPP 5w30 QSUD 0W20 MILES IN USE 4.4k 4.7k. MILES 151.3k 156k SAMPLE TAKEN 7/5/18 10/13/18



ALUMINUM 3 2

CHROMIUM 1 1

IRON 19 22

COPPER 0 0

LEAD 0 0

TIN 0 0

MOLYBDENUM 71 162

NICKEL 0 0

MANGANESE 0 0

SILVER 0 0

TITANIUM 2 0

POTASSIUM 1 0

BORON 45 26

SILICON 7 14

SODIUM 16 12

CALCIUM 1053 1343

MAGNESIUM 562 544

PHOSPHORUS 585 731

ZINC 618 773

BARIUM 0 0



INSOLUBLES 0.2 0.2

WATER 0 0

FLASHPOINT �F 430 365

SUS VIS 210�F 57.4 52.6

cSt @ 212�F 9.48 8.0

TBN 2.6 2.1

FUEL %. pre>

 

[53' Stude]

Looks OK and

 

[alius123]

TY 53' Stude! Can't seem to figure out how to align the text. Looks fine in the editor...

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted by alius123
TY 53' Stude! Can't seem to figure out how to align the text. Looks fine in the editor...


If I may; you could ask a moderator for help or maybe member SatinSilver. He has helped me in the past

 

[alius123]

Figured it out. It's a lot of trial and error changing the spacing between text, so the spacing is off in the editor but not once posted.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Quaker & Pennzoil are actually both owned by Shell, and I've never been able to figure out how they position their marketing for these. Pennzoil Platinum uses PurePlus, GroupIII+, while QSUD can be using plain GroupIII or GroupIII+ depending on what they can get their hands on at the time they make it. Anyway, a thread on the differences is at
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4472010/PP_0W20_vs_QSUD_0W20._Compare_ if interested.

Bottom line, the two are very close to each other in performance, and QSUD is $2 cheaper for a 5-quart jug at Walmart.

Its strange how the flash point was that low, indicating fuel, yet the KV100 was at 8, which is barely different than fresh KV100=8.3.
I guess there are two factors: Some old 5w30 at a higher viscosity was mixed in because it was left in the sump. Can't always drain it all out, after all, some gets left in there. That would raise the visc. for sure.
Another factor: Some oxidation occurred which would raise viscosity as well by some amount.
IOTW: fuel dilution brings it down, then oxidation pushes it up, and old 5w30 left in the sump (maybe 10% of the sump, guessing) pushes visc up a bit.

 

[oil_film_movies]

A good rule for condemning an oil based on TBN is: Take the TBN and thats how many thousands of miles the oil has left in it. For this one, it is 2,100 miles.
That rule should work fine. TBN tapers off some, although when the number gets below 2 the rule works the best. ...

 

[oil_film_movies]

Here is what an align left (Full Editor, the button next to the bullet points) does:

ALUMINUM 3 2
CHROMIUM 1 1
IRON 19 22
COPPER 0 0
LEAD 0 0
TIN 0 0
MOLYBDENUM 71 162
NICKEL 0 0
MANGANESE 0 0
SILVER 0 0
TITANIUM 2 0
POTASSIUM 1 0
BORON 45 26
SILICON 7 14
SODIUM 16 12
CALCIUM 1053 1343
MAGNESIUM 562 544
PHOSPHORUS 585 731
ZINC 618 773
BARIUM 0 0

INSOLUBLES 0.2 0.2
WATER 0 0
FLASHPOINT �F 430 365
SUS VIS 210�F 57.4 52.6
cSt @ 212�F 9.48 8.0
TBN 2.6 2.1
FUEL %. div>

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
A good rule for condemning an oil based on TBN is: Take the TBN and thats how many thousands of miles the oil has left in it. For this one, it is 2,100 miles.
That rule should work fine. TBN tapers off some, although when the number gets below 2 the rule works the best. ...



Well Mobil does not follow this rule. It will stay at 2 TBN range for thousands of miles before dropping.

 

[alius123]

Thanks for the explanations oil_film_movies. I should have done my replacement fill with QSUD again to get a better indicator if the 5W30 from the previous PPPP was impacting the viscosity. Then again, fuel dilution would vary based on my driving habits, so potentially that could change each time. I think in the end I'll stick with PPPP, unless I can't get my hands on it. Since both are by shell, I'm sure the same applies to their helix line up as well haha. Also, thanks for the note on using the full editor and not the edit button.

 

[buster]

Fe is high, this must be Mobil 1....oh wait! LOL. j/k

SN formulation. Looks fine.

 

[StevieC]

Iron went from 19 to 22 with the change of 30wt to 20wt. That engine is cruising for explosion. (J/K)

to BITOG as well!

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
A good rule for condemning an oil based on TBN is: Take the TBN and thats how many thousands of miles the oil has left in it. For this one, it is 2,100 miles.
That rule should work fine. TBN tapers off some, although when the number gets below 2 the rule works the best. ...
Well Mobil does not follow this rule. It will stay at 2 TBN range for thousands of miles before dropping.
It does depend on the drive cycles. When you say "Mobil", are you saying GroupII or full syn oils? You have data on "Mobil"? And why would "Mobil" be any different than other oils who also use similar calcium and magnesium detergents?

Actually viscosity change is another way to condemn an oil. Even that can get complicated with fuel dilution countering PIN (oxidation, sludging increase in visc), suspected in those cases seen where KV100 is right, yet the oil is old and fuel dilution is present.

Seems the only reliable way to determine if an oil is kaput is to measure DSC:

DSC measures anti-oxidant capacity, anti-ox chemicals breakdown in the oil.
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/77/gm's-oil-life-system-improves-timing-of-oil-change

Until these UOAs deliver DSC anti-ox capacity, we're guessing. Really makes a case for oil life monitors -- OLMs --- to track usage temperatures, RPMs, time, etc.

 

[advocate]

These engines will run on just about any oil and have a long life. I was doing 10k miles oil changes on my 2007 5.4 using Pennzoil platinum 5w-20. They run fine on a thicker oil though and are quieter. I changed to a 5w-30 diesel oil and I felt that it ran the best on it. Uoa was always fine. Stay away from motorcraft filters though, I was using a Fram Ultra with great results. Another member had very good results with longer intervals. I'll dig up a link for you.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yS-qTyJXQkaDUkOLdf-2j983u4jxYTaAdBYQAq0RPio/htmlview#gid=0

 

[alius123]

advocate - why against the motorcraft oil filter? Is it because of the lower ability to filter as much? I'm not much a FRAM fan though I have heard their top line isn't bad. I haven't heard anything necessarily bad with the motorcraft filter that I'm tracking. I'm pretty impressed with those results considering they are over 10k, more interesting that the conventional really wasn't that bad either from what it looked like. I'll see how this next run with the 5w20 PPPP compares and decide from there. In the end, even with differences, I'm sure they are negligible it would be difficult to say what the real world impacts would be on the engine.

 

[advocate]

They aren't the filter that they used to be. Quality has gone downhill big time. And the one for your 5.4 - FL820s is the worst offender it seems. Check out the oil filter section. Lots of issues with purolator and motorcraft filters. Tears in the media. Poor filter efficiency. Overall bad quality. I would suggest following the advice you got and try 7k. Sample again and go from there. These are really easy ok oil.

The Fram Ultra seems to be the best filter going at this time. But if you aren't a fan of them then I would suggest the amsoil ea line or royal purple (they are essentially the same) followed by the mobil 1 filter. Much better quality then the motorcraft and less to worry about especially since you are likely out of warranty.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
A good rule for condemning an oil based on TBN is: Take the TBN and thats how many thousands of miles the oil has left in it. For this one, it is 2,100 miles.
That rule should work fine. TBN tapers off some, although when the number gets below 2 the rule works the best. ...
Well Mobil does not follow this rule. It will stay at 2 TBN range for thousands of miles before dropping.
It does depend on the drive cycles. When you say "Mobil", are you saying GroupII or full syn oils? You have data on "Mobil"? And why would "Mobil" be any different than other oils who also use similar calcium and magnesium detergents?

Actually viscosity change is another way to condemn an oil. Even that can get complicated with fuel dilution countering PIN (oxidation, sludging increase in visc), suspected in those cases seen where KV100 is right, yet the oil is old and fuel dilution is present.

Seems the only reliable way to determine if an oil is kaput is to measure DSC:

DSC measures anti-oxidant capacity, anti-ox chemicals breakdown in the oil.
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/77/gm's-oil-life-system-improves-timing-of-oil-change

Until these UOAs deliver DSC anti-ox capacity, we're guessing. Really makes a case for oil life monitors -- OLMs --- to track usage temperatures, RPMs, time, etc.






Any prediction of viscosity out of grade or TBN drop with correlation of miles is really throwing darts in the dark. A rough prediction is possible but to say TBN or viscosity change will happen in XXXX miles is not a proposition I will endorse.

 

[Artem]

Agreed. Vehicle use and conditions can vary widely. I don't know how they can just randomly throw numbers together to make ANY prediction.

I left FL in shorts the other day @ 82F and arrived to Atlanta, GA to 47F outside. Glad I had a sweater.

 

[joekingcorvette]

I had a 2005 5.4 that had the oil changed every 3,000 to 3,500 at the dealership. They ran the regular ford semi-synthetic 5-20 and Ford filters. I bought the truck at 189,000 miles and ran it past 215,000 miles. I used Mobil 1 --20 or 5-20 synthetic and Ford oil filters. The truck is still on the road and I am sure it probably will go to 300,000 miles. I didn't have much engine or cam phaser noise at all.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by alius123
advocate - why against the motorcraft oil filter? Is it because of the lower ability to filter as much? I'm not much a FRAM fan though I have heard their top line isn't bad.


Both Fram's middle-line (Tough Guard) and lower-line (Extra Guard with silicone ADBV) is a notch above Motorcraft too.... my opinion.