2007 Honda Civic EX - Mobil1 EP 5w-30 10,249 miles

Messages
5,507
Location
Florida
Alright so here's the latest report. OIL: M1 EP 5w-30 OIL is use for 8 months and 10,249 miles I ran 5w-30 on this fill to see if wear would decrease with the slightly thicker oil. The lab seems to confirm this @ 10k miles. Had the analysis been done at the same 7k interval as before with the 5w-20, i'm sure the wear would have been much less. The MM (Maintenance Minder) popped up at 6,900 miles, suggesting almost identical driving style/conditions vs the previous run. 1,400 miles later, i was at 0% oil life and the count went negative. The oil was ran for 3,400 miles past 15% (The recommended OCI by Honda.) Overall i think the oil did very well. I'm happy with the viscosity at the end of the run. 5w-20 seemed very thin at the end of the last OCI, IMO. I will continue to use 5w-30 in the Civic for better wear protection. I did not notice any MPG drop. Still ave 38MPG on the highway doing 80mph+ with 2 passengers. Current fill of Amsoil 0w-30 for a 15k run. Will re-sample without draining the oil and run it further if the lab backs it up.
 
Messages
15,058
Location
Canada
10k miles, and single-digit wear. Nice! ....and I agree, the thicker 5W-30 did a bit better than the 5W-20...I'd stick with it. But be ready for the haters who will gnash their teeth at the suggestion that a thicker oil protects better than a thin one!
 

Artem

Thread starter
Messages
5,507
Location
Florida
Originally Posted By: panthermike
Looks good. If that last run was 5w20, it wasn't thin at all.
you don't think viscosity of 53 @ 210F is a little on the thin side? had i sampled at 7k with the 5w-30 im sure wear numbers would've been even smaller, clearly showing better protection. (M1 5w-20 used since day 1 changing via MM @ 7k ave)
 

JOD

Messages
3,577
Location
PNW/WA
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: panthermike
Looks good. If that last run was 5w20, it wasn't thin at all.
you don't think viscosity of 53 @ 210F is a little on the thin side?
no
Originally Posted By: Artem
had i sampled at 7k with the 5w-30 im sure wear numbers would've been even smaller, clearly showing better protection.
1. there's no guarantee the PPM's showing up in a UOA would have been greater, since your oil filter was more efficient by the end of the run, and 2. You're kidding yourself if you think that a 2 or 3 PPM difference in a single-pass UOA is indicative of engine wear. It's a complete misuse of the tool, and honestly shows a bit of misunderstanding of the methodology, how engines wear, and what constitutes "wear" in an engine. If that makes me a "hater", so be it.
 

Artem

Thread starter
Messages
5,507
Location
Florida
^^ thank you for your opinion JOD. this all goes back to my own personal hypothesis that Honda just like every other manufacturer, are using thinner oils to meet CAFE standards are well as bump MPGs a few points. i believe that this isn't necessary the best for the engine, regardless whether the engine was "designed" for 5w-20. I'm sure it would be "just fine" on 5w-20 but i like being outside the law.
 
Messages
424
Location
Toronto, ON, Canada
I would stick to warranty requirement (don't go below 0% on MM). Especially the early product R18 that has known issue of engine block cracking. Judging from your number between 5W20 vs 5W30. The 5W30 protects over 50% better! I have seen quite a few UOA proves that using 5W30 gets a lower wear numbers than 5W20. I am surely expect at least 20-30% better protection.
 
Last edited:
Messages
1,563
Location
North Carolina, USA
Police cruisers have logged well over 200K running 5/20 dino oil in them. Much of it was/is idling time which is killer on engines. Won't be long and 5W20 will be the "thick stuff" on the shelf. 0W10 will be here soon and then the sky will be falling for sure.
 

Artem

Thread starter
Messages
5,507
Location
Florida
Originally Posted By: Carzzz
I would stick to warranty requirement (don't go below 0% on MM). Especially the early product R18 that has known issue of engine block cracking.
I don't see how my longer OCIs will effect the engine block. If there's a defect in the casting, it will crack regardless, even if i do 3k OCIs. I was following the warranty requirements up until the warranty expired, now its all on me.
 

Artem

Thread starter
Messages
5,507
Location
Florida
Originally Posted By: Mokanic
Police cruisers have logged well over 200K running 5/20 dino oil in them. Much of it was/is idling time which is killer on engines. Won't be long and 5W20 will be the "thick stuff" on the shelf. 0W10 will be here soon and then the sky will be falling for sure.
I fully agree that the engine will be completely fine and will have no problem reaching 200-300k on regular Walmark oil, but i want the best protection for my cars, esp in Florida's heat...
 
Messages
391
Location
Canada
You should be running two intervals of an oil before testing. Residual fluid may still be affecting your results. Having said that; your OCI program is working out well and I'll be subscribing to this thread for sure.
 

Artem

Thread starter
Messages
5,507
Location
Florida
^I agree. The only fluid that's been in the Engine was Mobil 1 EP 5w-20 for 80,000 miles. I switched to 5w-30 for this run so i doubt anything from the 5w-20 is affecting the current results. The current fill of Amsoil SSO 0w-30 mixed with leftover M1 juice might affect the results of my next UOA and as much as i'd love to do a quick flush with Amsoil to clean out the engine of any leftover M1 fluid, its too expensive and silly to do so...
 

Artem

Thread starter
Messages
5,507
Location
Florida
The R18 engine in the newer civics is very efficient and runs super clean, hence the ULEV rating. Mobil1 seems to hold up very well. Im trying out Amsoil SSO 0w-30 next.
 
Messages
424
Location
Toronto, ON, Canada
Originally Posted By: Artem
I don't see how my longer OCIs will effect the engine block. If there's a defect in the casting, it will crack regardless, even if i do 3k OCIs.
True! you may still get goodwill if your engine block cracks (touchwood), if you following the OLM... just my $0.02
 

Artem

Thread starter
Messages
5,507
Location
Florida
I don't see how Honda will be able to tell, unless the engine is full of sludge and we both know that ain't gonna be happening with synthetic oil @ 10k OCIs so I'm not worried. Like i said, im at 96,000 miles. If she blows, the R18 engine is relatively cheap to be had from Ebay or some junkyard.
 
Messages
4,564
Location
NW Ohio
It's a great UOA but it's only a snapshot and not conclusive proof of anything. It certainly tells us both oils held up very well. If you showed me 5 consecutive 5W20 UOAs and 5 consecutive 5W30s that indicated a significant statistical difference in wear metals, I'd be more convinced. A few PPM here or there isn't proof of anything. Too many variables in this to draw many conclusions. Still, hot weather is the situation where a higher viscosity could show better wear numbers. Don't know how hot is hot for Artem's part of Florida but I guess I'd need to know what the average operating oil temp was on that little Hondoo before I'd draw a conclusion from it. My general bottom line on the thing is that there's not a notable difference in wear between 5W20 and 5W30, assuming no variances from climate recommendations. Not much MPG difference either (same caveat) so nits are likely being picked in either direction when looked at by an individual car owner. A corporate/government outlook might be different, so in the sense that when calculated over millions of miles and cars, the MPG difference is significant, in that way the "CAFE conspiracy crowd" is correct. I just don't think the lighter oil is anywhere near as "harmful" as that crowd wants to believe it is. If you were talking about '70s formulations in 5W20, maybe. Not the modern stuff.
 
Last edited:

Artem

Thread starter
Messages
5,507
Location
Florida
^good food for thought, thanks Jim. i agree that more data is needed before i start recommending everyone to switch over to a 30 weight. I'll sample my current fill of Amsoil SSO 0w-30 (for the winter months) @ 10k to compare to the M1 EP. If the results are good enough, i'll run it a bit further but i'm really itching to try out different brands.
 
Top