He was adding to the list. I was adding to the list.
2007 Camry 0w20 or 5w20 on filler cap
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G-Man II,
That pic is too funny, I'm LOL.
That pic is too funny, I'm LOL.
Toyota too has run up the white flag!???
Well, since Mazda was already on the list. . .quote:
Originally posted by 427Z06:
He was adding to the list. I was adding to the list.
I would be carefull about "back compatability" unless the manufacture says so in literature and not a dealer service writers opinion. I'm careful here.
Maybe Tony will supply the winners with a years supply of the oil of their choice.quote:
Originally posted by ekpolk:
Shall we start a pool: Which maker will be the next to go 5w-20???
Pull out your service manual and give us the bearing clearances/tolerances and oil pump specs for the VQ35 V-6. That will give us an idea.
Mazda
Gee, I hope no one upsets you further by mentioning Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover or Aston Martin when they should obviously call them Fords when referring to them.quote:
Originally posted by ekpolk:
Well, since Mazda was already on the list. . .quote:
Originally posted by 427Z06:
He was adding to the list. I was adding to the list.
427Z06,
Here are some specs for a '97 VQ30 (Maxima)
(measurements are inches) VQ35 should be similar:
Main Bearing Clearance 0.0005-0.0012 in
limit 0.0026
Connecting rod bearing 0.0008-0.0018
limit 0.0028
Camshaft journal to bearing 0.0018-0.0034
limit 0.0059
Connect Rod side clear. 0.0079-0.0138
limit 0.0157
Connect Rod Bushing clear. 0.0002-0.0007
limit 0.0012
Piston-Bore clear. 0.0004-0.0012
Piston ring side clear (top) 0.0016-0.0031
(2nd) 0.0012-0.0028
Piston pin clearance 0.0001-0.0002
Oil Pump:
Body - outer gear radial clear. 0.0045-0.0102 in
Inner gear - outer gear tip clear. below 0.0071
Body - inner gear axial clear. 0.0020-0.0035
Body - outer gear axial clear. 0.0012-0.0075
Inner gear -brazed portion housing 0.0018-0.0036
Regulator valve - body clear. 0.0016-0.0038
Oil pump pressures: idle - more than 10 psi
3000 rpm - 63.1-79.9 psi
Nissan USA recommends 5w30 and 10w30, with 5w30 preferred in all climates. Nissan Europe recommends from 5w20 to 20w50. According to them, 5w20 "Not recommended for sustained high speed driving", and "10w30 is preferable for ambient temp above -20*C (-4*F)". It also states "5w30 will positively improve fuel economy". 5w30 only goes up to +15*C (59*F). 10w** and 15w** start at _20*C (-4*F) and go up from there (over 104*F). 20w40 and 20w50 start at -10*C (+14*F) and go above 104*F.
When seeing these differences between US and European recommended viscosities for the SAME engine, I can only conclude that the lower US recommendation is CAFE driven. It has also been my experience that these engines like thicker oils, determined by UOA's and obvious engine noise (or lack of if using thicker oils). So far, I have only used *w30 weights, specifically Mobil 1 5w30 (very loud engine noises and slight steering wheel vibrations at idle), Castrol GTX 5w and 10w30 (both improved over Mobil 1), and green GC (even quieter and smoother). I know the "quietness" is subjective, and I'm sure the "thin is in" crowd will come up with some excuse for it, but these engines are known to many OWNERS to like thicker oils. And apparently also to Nissan engineers who wrote the owner's manual for European Maximas.
With this data, can ekpolk's question about physical realities or Nissan engineer's old school thinking be tossed around for an answer? Or could it help validate some people's opinion that some lighter oil recommendations in the US are CAFE driven? If this engine's tolerances resemble those of Ford, Honda, etc, then why is Nissan Europe against 5w20 for sustained high speed driving? Could it be that we don't really do high speed driving in the US like in Europe (atleast legally), and therefore don't need to worry about an oil that may fail to protect at high speed?
I personally lean towards the CAFE driven side of lighter oil recommendations in the US. This is not to say I can't be swayed to the "lighter" side if indisputable evidence to the contrary is presented. But with Nissan's recommendations, plus my personal experiences with two 4th generation Maximas, I find the evidence supporting thicker oils compelling to say the least. Atleast for this engine. And if others have similar tolerances/specs, for them, also.
Dave
Here are some specs for a '97 VQ30 (Maxima)
(measurements are inches) VQ35 should be similar:
Main Bearing Clearance 0.0005-0.0012 in
limit 0.0026
Connecting rod bearing 0.0008-0.0018
limit 0.0028
Camshaft journal to bearing 0.0018-0.0034
limit 0.0059
Connect Rod side clear. 0.0079-0.0138
limit 0.0157
Connect Rod Bushing clear. 0.0002-0.0007
limit 0.0012
Piston-Bore clear. 0.0004-0.0012
Piston ring side clear (top) 0.0016-0.0031
(2nd) 0.0012-0.0028
Piston pin clearance 0.0001-0.0002
Oil Pump:
Body - outer gear radial clear. 0.0045-0.0102 in
Inner gear - outer gear tip clear. below 0.0071
Body - inner gear axial clear. 0.0020-0.0035
Body - outer gear axial clear. 0.0012-0.0075
Inner gear -brazed portion housing 0.0018-0.0036
Regulator valve - body clear. 0.0016-0.0038
Oil pump pressures: idle - more than 10 psi
3000 rpm - 63.1-79.9 psi
Nissan USA recommends 5w30 and 10w30, with 5w30 preferred in all climates. Nissan Europe recommends from 5w20 to 20w50. According to them, 5w20 "Not recommended for sustained high speed driving", and "10w30 is preferable for ambient temp above -20*C (-4*F)". It also states "5w30 will positively improve fuel economy". 5w30 only goes up to +15*C (59*F). 10w** and 15w** start at _20*C (-4*F) and go up from there (over 104*F). 20w40 and 20w50 start at -10*C (+14*F) and go above 104*F.
When seeing these differences between US and European recommended viscosities for the SAME engine, I can only conclude that the lower US recommendation is CAFE driven. It has also been my experience that these engines like thicker oils, determined by UOA's and obvious engine noise (or lack of if using thicker oils). So far, I have only used *w30 weights, specifically Mobil 1 5w30 (very loud engine noises and slight steering wheel vibrations at idle), Castrol GTX 5w and 10w30 (both improved over Mobil 1), and green GC (even quieter and smoother). I know the "quietness" is subjective, and I'm sure the "thin is in" crowd will come up with some excuse for it, but these engines are known to many OWNERS to like thicker oils. And apparently also to Nissan engineers who wrote the owner's manual for European Maximas.
With this data, can ekpolk's question about physical realities or Nissan engineer's old school thinking be tossed around for an answer? Or could it help validate some people's opinion that some lighter oil recommendations in the US are CAFE driven? If this engine's tolerances resemble those of Ford, Honda, etc, then why is Nissan Europe against 5w20 for sustained high speed driving? Could it be that we don't really do high speed driving in the US like in Europe (atleast legally), and therefore don't need to worry about an oil that may fail to protect at high speed?
I personally lean towards the CAFE driven side of lighter oil recommendations in the US. This is not to say I can't be swayed to the "lighter" side if indisputable evidence to the contrary is presented. But with Nissan's recommendations, plus my personal experiences with two 4th generation Maximas, I find the evidence supporting thicker oils compelling to say the least. Atleast for this engine. And if others have similar tolerances/specs, for them, also.
Dave
Dave H, I don't disagree with you in the least. (very thoroughly researched and well-written argument, by the way -
) But, don't be surprised if Nissan caves, too. It's sad when like-minded ("Don't confuse us with the facts, our minds are already made up.") gub'ment functionaries presume to pressure engineers to their politically correct mindset. Sadder yet when otherwise knowledgeable car owners swallow the swill, run around waving their arms, and shout, "Hallelujah - herald the dawn of the 5W-20 millennium! Surely, goodness and grace shall follow forevermore."
Who's upset?quote:
Originally posted by 427Z06:
Gee, I hope no one upsets you further by mentioning Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover or Aston Martin when they should obviously call them Fords when referring to them.
Back on topic . . . is this only the Camry, or did Toyota make the switch on all models and all engines?
Dave H, I'm really not interested is rehashing the 5w20 debate for the umpteenth time. Y'all can believe whatever you want. But I will say this. If those bearing clearances/tolerances are correct for the VQ30/VQ35 and other Nissan engines, then the bearing clearances/tolerances are not the reason Nissans are not 5w20s friendly, if in fact that is the case. Too bad there isn't an identical Xw20 formulation of GC. Triple OCIs/UOAs of a "thick" and "thin" GC would put some real evidence on the table for Nissan lovers.
Did Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover or Aston Martin make the switch when products commonly known as Fords make the switch?quote:
Originally posted by ekpolk:
Well, since Mazda was already on the list. . .quote:
Originally posted by 427Z06:
He was adding to the list. I was adding to the list.
Quite frankly, nitpicking my posts over such trifles that don't even in reference to your posts, is petty and whiney. Petty and whiney is not very becoming to a Marine.
In '07 Toyota is introducing a new really full size pickup with a 5.6L V-8. No doubt the engine will make it into Sequoias, Lexus, and Land Cruisers.
The Camry V-6 is no mpg king to begin with.
They will need every tenth of a CAFE mpg they can get to average out. Toyota makes about half the cost of their small cars with the profit from trucks and luxury cars like everyone else.
The Camry V-6 is no mpg king to begin with.
They will need every tenth of a CAFE mpg they can get to average out. Toyota makes about half the cost of their small cars with the profit from trucks and luxury cars like everyone else.
427:
If you're a vet too, then you of all people should be able to handle the heat when you enter the hot kitchen with such barbed questions as, "What's your point?" If you want the dish, then expect to have some dished back. Also as a veteran, you should realize that Marines, of all people, aren't afraid to get into a firefight, anywhere, anytime; fer cryin' out loud, this is easy here. Now, can we move on with this intriguing topic . . . please?
If you're a vet too, then you of all people should be able to handle the heat when you enter the hot kitchen with such barbed questions as, "What's your point?" If you want the dish, then expect to have some dished back. Also as a veteran, you should realize that Marines, of all people, aren't afraid to get into a firefight, anywhere, anytime; fer cryin' out loud, this is easy here. Now, can we move on with this intriguing topic . . . please?
I bought a new 2006 Camry LE 4 cylinder the end of February. The manufacture date is January 2006. The owner's manual specifies 5W-30 oil for all conditions. It says that 10W-30 can be used if necessary but should be changed back to 5W-30 at the next oil change. However, the oil filler cap say 5W-20 or 0W-20! How is that for mixed signals?
Umm, I agree. What is your point. Ford owns 33% of Mazda. So what is your proof that Ford calls the shots when they are in minority control of Mazda. If your going to make unfounded claims be prepared to be called out on your bull****. I guess the possibility of 5w20 oil being superior to the others never crossed your mind.
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