2007.5 Ram 2500 6.7 - 25K on Schaeffer 5W40, 5K on Redline 15W40

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2007.5 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins 6.7 V8 [Linked Image] I did two close UOAs to investigate the potassium situation. Turns out it is a result of crankcase vent filter failure. Oil has been getting into the charge air system which leaches potassium from the intercooler. Coolant passed an exhaust test and system holds either vacuum or pressure overnight without any movement. Silicon is up because it is an additive in Redline. First run was Amsoil AME 15W-40 (diesel and marine 12TBN, a CI4+ oil), second was Schaeffer 15W-40, third is Schaeffer 5W-40, and last is the Redline 15W-40. Why so many oils? Trying to see if something will give me less iron. Nope. This engine in these conditions is going to drop 2PPM per 1K miles no matter what. Schaeffer 5W-40 did not hold TBN as well as 15W-40 did, and I have no idea why soot levels have all of a sudden plummeted. Maybe the first run of Schaeffer oil just scrubbed the engine clean of soot. Or the bypass-in-filter LF9028 I use has done some serious cleaning. Dunno, but I like that alot. I didn't change the oil filter or add any makeup oil at all. Fuel remains a non-issue on my deleted truck. Speaking of being deleted, I think I'm just done with CJ-4 oil. I'm going back to Amsoil AME or that 15TBN TR oil. My engine is happy enough with 25K mile oil changes that I just want some fat viscosity and some fat TBN. Set it and forget it. I don't need CJ-4 or CK-4 oil to protect anything. Cummins actually advises to "Do not use" oils meeting either spec in engines without EGR or DPF. So bye-bye. This engine now has 485,000 miles on it. I'd like to pass 1 million. Factory leather has no tears, dash and all other plastics have no cracks, and the body is as sexy as ever. Not bad for 13 years old.
 
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Iron from camshaft maybe? Iron ppm may creep up with Redline on initial fill. Think its trying to remove previous film. Hope it keeps running a long time.
 

DoubleWasp

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Cummins specific recommendation about EGR and DPF free engines list all oil specs that meet CJ-4 and CK-4 spec as "do not use". The reason they give is because of lower TBN levels. They warn that more frequent oil changes will be necessary. My engine has hardly "suffered" from the newer oil specs. I'd just prefer the stronger TBN at this point. I was dead set on a bypass system, but the LF9028 seems to be doing the job just fine.
 

dnewton3

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Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
2007.5 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins 6.7 V8 Why so many oils? Trying to see if something will give me less iron. Nope. This engine in these conditions is going to drop 2PPM per 1K miles no matter what. This engine now has 485,000 miles on it. I'd like to pass 1 million.
That is very typical Fe wear rate for the ISB-type engines. At that rate, you'll make your 1M miles, assuming other influences don't cause degradation. What you're learning first hand is what I've seen in over 15,000 UOAs in my database. Each unique engine will have a fairly consistent wear rate, viewed over time (micro data). Each engine series will also exhibit a typical wear rate (macro data). When it comes to Fe, about the only things that will send it for a spike are an intake tract leak (abrasive Si) or some sort of other contamination issue (grossly high lube dilution from excess fuel; coolant dilution of the lube ...). The other wear metals can see a spike, but those are most often from a particle streak and typically will settle down again over an OCI or two. Obscene tuning tricks can also spike metals, but that's the price one pays when one makes the choice to really drive up the power levels; at that point, it's just for fun. Honestly, you'd probably get about the same wear rate from a good dino oil, also. However it may not last quite as long. But there are examples of longer OCIs in Cummins engines using dino lubes, and the rates still are favorable. Generally your wear rates won't be altered by the lube nearly as much as it can be by other degrading influences. To truly know your "normal" variation, you'd have to stick to consistent OCIs, and then do 30 UOAs; if you only UOA at the end of the OCI, that would take you about 750k miles just to know what your "normal" Fe variation actually is. But, you're on your way!
 
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I'm changing the LF9028 on my Ram soon, it's been on for quite a while ( 3.5 years time wise, only 10K miles), I'll post pics when I change it. Definitely keeps the oil less black & thinner appearing, probably should do a UOA too.
 
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Looks like the Redline isn't doing you any favors. Amsoil seems to give the lowest numbers and I wonder if the Schaeffer 15w-40 would do better than the 5w-40 in your application. Keep on rollin' to 1,000,000+ !
 
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Originally Posted by JLTD
Looks like the Redline isn't doing you any favors. Amsoil seems to give the lowest numbers and I wonder if the Schaeffer 15w-40 would do better than the 5w-40 in your application.
Only because the Amsoil was run for less than half the mileage. When extrapolated out, Amsoil performed right on par with the Schaeffers 5w-40. I'd run the Schaeffers 15W-40 again. That was a great showing.
 
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Originally Posted by JustN89
Originally Posted by JLTD
Looks like the Redline isn't doing you any favors. Amsoil seems to give the lowest numbers and I wonder if the Schaeffer 15w-40 would do better than the 5w-40 in your application.
Only because the Amsoil was run for less than half the mileage. When extrapolated out, Amsoil performed right on par with the Schaeffers 5w-40. I'd run the Schaeffers 15W-40 again. That was a great showing.
Not true. Al PPM at 5K was already what Amsoil was at 25k. If Fe rate stayed consistent per mile, redline would have been 80 PPM at 25K.
 
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Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Cummins specific recommendation about EGR and DPF free engines list all oil specs that meet CJ-4 and CK-4 spec as "do not use". The reason they give is because of lower TBN levels. They warn that more frequent oil changes will be necessary. My engine has hardly "suffered" from the newer oil specs. I'd just prefer the stronger TBN at this point. I was dead set on a bypass system, but the LF9028 seems to be doing the job just fine.
So if deleted they recommend going back in spec. to a CI-4 or CES20078 oil?
 
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Originally Posted by thastinger
Originally Posted by JustN89
Originally Posted by JLTD
Looks like the Redline isn't doing you any favors. Amsoil seems to give the lowest numbers and I wonder if the Schaeffer 15w-40 would do better than the 5w-40 in your application.
Only because the Amsoil was run for less than half the mileage. When extrapolated out, Amsoil performed right on par with the Schaeffers 5w-40. I'd run the Schaeffers 15W-40 again. That was a great showing.
Not true. Al PPM at 5K was already what Amsoil was at 25k. If Fe rate stayed consistent per mile, redline would have been 80 PPM at 25K.
Huh? He didn't run Amsoil to 25k miles- that was Schaeffers. And I was referencing the Amsoil comparison to Schaeffers 15W-40, not Redline.
 
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Originally Posted by Bighorn2500
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Cummins specific recommendation about EGR and DPF free engines list all oil specs that meet CJ-4 and CK-4 spec as "do not use". The reason they give is because of lower TBN levels. They warn that more frequent oil changes will be necessary. My engine has hardly "suffered" from the newer oil specs. I'd just prefer the stronger TBN at this point. I was dead set on a bypass system, but the LF9028 seems to be doing the job just fine.
So if deleted they recommend going back in spec. to a CI-4 or CES20078 oil?
Sounds like it. Many feel that CJ4 and CK4 were designed to protect EGRs and DPFs, and thus lowered add packs. Many deleted guys recommend CI4 if deleted, due to better add packs (mainly higher Zn and P). Thing that confuses me is why does Amsoil AME (CI4, 15w40) only have an HTHS of 4.2, when in same grade Amsoil DME (CJ4, CK4, 15w40) has higher HTHS of 4.5? Anyone any ideas here?
 

DoubleWasp

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Dnewton: I'm confident you are correct. The Schaeffer 15W-40 was a semi-syn and threw down performance on par with the Amsoil AME. The only reason I'm going with either AME or the TR oil is to hold as much TBN and vis as possible. Given my declining soot levels, it is possible that I could get away with 30 or 35K miles. That would make one oil change per 18 months. Not a money thing. Just gives me one less thing to do when I always have a lot to do. Once I have committed to doing an oil change, it takes me days or a week to get around to it. I installed a spigot on the 1/8" NPT hole in my factory oil filter mount. I can take a UOA like I'm grabbing a drink from a water cooler. I order the NAPA UOA in bulk. Costs me pocket change. My life is easier just to UOA and keep going than to do a bunch of oil changes. Big TBN keeps me firmly in that territory. Bullwinkle: I've cut open an LF9028 and posted it. Really interesting filter. Seems to do the job well enough, even on the long haul. JLTD: The thing to remember here is that there is definitely a point where the wear metals taper off. I'm the short run, the Redline looks like it's flopping but may come to match either of the Schaeffer oils.....or even beat them. I also have been doing a greater percentage of towing on this OCI than any of the others. The ester based Redline may also be doing some scrubbing of my engine. The Schaeffer 15W-40 definitely was a better performer than the 5W-40. Slaps the whole "syn is better than semi-syn" theory directly in the face. JustN89: The Schaeffer's 15W-40 was a great performer. Wear and TBN were great. Bighorn 2500: Cummins does not directly address deleted engines. It simply states that engines "without DPF or EGR" (engines made that way, I assume) stick to a CI-4+ oil and not use CJ-4 or CK-4 spec oil due to reduced TBN requiring more frequent oil changes. Claluja: It is a little odd that DME has higher HTHS. Maybe the made it a bit thicker expecting it to be knocked down a little by fuel dilution typical of DPF trucks?
 
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That 26k run of Amsoil seems to have done the best. The 6.7 Cummins is a big, old-school inline 6 diesel. Lots of iron to shed there!
 
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