2005 Civic UOA Royal Purple 6140 mi (53k vehicle)

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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Looking at the metals in the analysis, I would say with certainty that the oil has a typical and classic (read old fashioned) diesel "type" DP in it and is more than you need for your OCI and will cause excessive wear (relatively) due to unbalanced surface competition amoungst the polar constituents


I don't even know where to begin googling. Any chance you could dumb that down about 14 notches for me?
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You got too much detergent/dispersant in that oil and the nasty diesel type: Mg1400ppm, Ca2500ppm. Typical of long drain oil though. If you want a semi-boutique oil, Try Amsoil where they know what they are doing in a long life formulation.
 
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
You got too much detergent/dispersant in that oil and the nasty diesel type: Mg1400ppm, Ca2500ppm. Typical of long drain oil though. If you want a semi-boutique oil, Try Amsoil where they know what they are doing in a long life formulation.


Thanks for that explanation. I have a bunch of this oil left, but I've already decided that the girlfriend's 2010 TL is a better home for it.

I'm involuntarily running Honda dealership bulk oil at the moment. They dumped my next oil choice (Toyota 0w20) and refilled it after only 200 miles during a timing belt service. I should say overfilled, since the oil was a solid centimeter above the top mark on the dipstick, so I drained about 3/4 of a quart to get it where it should be.

If I have less than great success with the Toyota 0w20, I'd very much consider Amsoil XL or SSO. I chose to go the Toyota 0w20 route because I think the fact that it's substantially thinner is better for my grandma-like driving in a car that I thought was easy on oil.
 
Okay, I checked out the PCV valve and it looked clean and fine (although I'm not sure exactly what I was looking for).

There's a 3/4 inch (guessing) hose that comes out of the back of the intake manifold and goes towards the steering wheel/gauge cluster area. I don't know what it is/does, but it's a little beat up, although I couldn't find any visible cracks. Anybody familiar with this car know what I'm describing, and able to tell me whether it could let dirt and dust into the engine?
 
Could you take a picture?

If not, does it go to a location along the firewall, brake booster line?

PS: The PCV valve is checked 'generally' by gently squeezing shut the hose that connects to the valve in the middle and listening for the valve to click. You do this while the engine is running to listen if the valve is functioning.
 
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
If not, does it go to a location along the firewall, brake booster line?

PS: The PCV valve is checked 'generally' by gently squeezing shut the hose that connects to the valve in the middle and listening for the valve to click. You do this while the engine is running to listen if the valve is functioning.


Yes! Brake booster line makes sense. Could air get in that way?

I just took the PCV valve out and looked at it. It looked good. Definitely no unfiltered air getting in there. I still want to know if anybody thinks that the time the car spent having the hood, bumper, and headlights replaced could partially explain any of the high iron, aluminum, and silicon numbers.

Thanks.
 
Any vacuum tubing could create a leak IF it has a tear. Via a secondary tube(that is to say, not the main tube from the air cleaner element to the throttle body), you'd have a vacuum leak that would probably be noticeable.

You could check all of the hoses that connect to the Intake Manifold, try spraying a gentle Throttle Body cleaner(wont destroy rubbers by simply misting) ONLY towards the vacuum tubing connection while the engine is at HOT idle and see if the RPMs change while spraying each hose. If so, you've got a leak. I know some newer Civics are harder to work around to inspect all hoses visually so this may help. If you have to spray from under the car for some other hoses, use goggles and look away for a few seconds after spraying, you just need some good hearing for engine idle change which would = vacuum leak.

3 ppm of Si every 1,000 isn't 'terrible' but at that stage you'd want to monitor, IMO. That's about where I'm at using a K&N drop in. If Si looks elevated again after my current OCI, I'll try a Wix or DENSO/dealership filter.
 
That procedure sounds a little ambitious for my capabilities. Wouldn't I have other issues if there were a vacuum leak? The car runs butter smooth, and I'm getting 37+ mpg on the latest tank of gas a little less than halfway to the E mark. No rough idling, no running in open loop. I'm thinking I can rule out vacuum leak, right?
 
Probably, just saying if you were concerned.
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The Mann filter may not be the best for your app. Try a Wix or dealer part. Shop on Amazon or RockAuto if you like. I prefer to buy air filters in person so I can return them right away if there is quality or sealing problems(filter doesn't seal well inside of housing or just not my taste etc).
 
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Probably, just saying if you were concerned.
thumbsup2.gif


The Mann filter may not be the best for your app. Try a Wix or dealer part. Shop on Amazon or RockAuto if you like. I prefer to buy air filters in person so I can return them right away if there is quality or sealing problems(filter doesn't seal well inside of housing or just not my taste etc).


It appears to seal up just fine. And it looks like a nice quality filter. I was shocked to see silicon rise after I swapped my K&N drop in for it.

If I get elevated numbers of silicon on the next UOA, I'll abandon Mann air filters and try a Wix. I tossed the first one after getting this UOA and put in the second. I think I have 1 more in my stash. I don't think these numbers are worrisome enough that I need to take drastic measures. Is that accurate?
 
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Probably, just saying if you were concerned.
thumbsup2.gif


The Mann filter may not be the best for your app. Try a Wix or dealer part. Shop on Amazon or RockAuto if you like. I prefer to buy air filters in person so I can return them right away if there is quality or sealing problems(filter doesn't seal well inside of housing or just not my taste etc).


Correct.

Here is another thought for consideration. Sometimes you will get an increase in silicon from just removing the air filter/re-installing after inspection or at air filter replacement, some dirt trapped in a groove gets loose and is ingested soon later. So, anytime you break a sealed system that is an opportunity for a blip in silicon really.

Have you checked for or recall seeing any dirt/fine dust in the air filtration box or downstream of the air filter?

Sometimes silicon is harmless additive. It doesn't appear that Royal Purple utilizes this, but various VOA indicate it's possible to get trace amounts here and there, so if you give the tolerance of 'noise' being roughly 3-5 ppm, actual dirt ingestion is probably not quite 3 ppm every 1,000 miles for this car. Above average filtration, actually, and probably as good as OE was/is capable of doing.

Make sure whatever filters you get aren't made in China on the box or appearing to be outsourced for a cheap version. Some countries make nice parts, no problem.

If it's hard to find a good one aftermarket, I go OE/dealer part or buy something like a Denso air filter. Amazon and/or RockAuto seell them online, usually free shipping over $25 on 'super saver' orders from Amazon, whatever floats your boat. The Wix filter is a good option. I'm going with that if numbers stress me any more.

All that said, going back to the real point, leave the filter alone between oil changes next time, try to keep oil bottles dust-free and clean. So, if you have to top-off the oil, you make sure potential dirt ingestion is minimal. I always inspect the oil filler cap area on the engine and wipe it down when I remove/reinsert the cap simply because of OCD, brushing away from the opening meticulously not to allow particles to enter, lol.

From observing many UOA,' bad' air filtration starts at rates of ingestion higher than 4-5 ppm / 1,000 miles and IS more of an issue the longer the oil change. Dirt or dust is probably large enough to be caught unless it's like fiber glass particulate size or smaller than 10 micron, might take a few passes unfortunately. The Wix 51356 is 50% efficient at 5 micron and 95% at 20 micron according to the beta ratios, so better than OE oil filters anyway. I think your oil filter selection is fine. For mid-tier, I go Bosch Premium/Purolator PureONE to Wix/Napa Gold/Carquest Blue.
 
Yeah, I didn't touch anything in the air intake system during this oil change. It was during the previous OCI that I ditched the K&N for the Mann, which I did buy on RockAuto. One of my main questions was whether this level of silicon was worrisome enough to merit opening things up and risking introducing more dirt and dust into the system. As stated, I did have some body work done and maybe they opened something up for some reason? Guess this is the reason to do UOA's, to see if this is a blip or a trend. Thanks.
 
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