2003 Honda Accord 3L V6 auto at 22K miles on rebuilt transmission, 10K OCI

[ap]

AL is higher than I expected. I did drain & refill this time (3qt of ATF-Z1) but still wonder if this will be enough. Old test results here http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000041#000000

 

[The Critic]

Where in CA did you have the transmission flushed/filled? I think you have a wear problem here with a component, or Lubegard is having a reaction with the metals in this transmission. For one, Honda ATF-Z1's formula appears to have changed... Best bet in this situation would be to pay Terry (www.dysonanalysis.com) $30 to interpret this report. I think there's a possibility that a mechanical problem may be present with this transmission, and Terry would know for sure. Once you have his interpretation, you can proceed further (if needed) in dealing with the dealership in an effort to replace the unit before warranty expiration. [ July 22, 2006, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: The Critic ]

 

[The Critic]

Also, this flud actually had 9934 miles on it, not 9600.

 

[ap]

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic: Where in CA did you have the transmission flushed/filled?

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http://www.precisionautorepair.com/ They did drain&refill (3 times) at 12K and now at 22K just a single drain&refill.

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic: I think you have a wear problem here with a component, or Lubegard is having a reaction with the metals in this transmission. For one, Honda ATF-Z1's formula appears to have changed...

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I suspect Lubegard at this point. After all first 12K tranny was doing just fine.

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic: Best bet in this situation would be to pay Terry (www.dysonanalysis.com) $30 to interpret this report. I think there's a possibility that a mechanical problem may be present with this transmission, and Terry would know for sure. Once you have his interpretation, you can proceed further (if needed) in dealing with the dealership in an effort to replace the unit before warranty expiration.

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I most likely will contact Terry , as far as warranty goes it is 2003 model year and at that time Honda had only 36K powertrain warranty. This is actually not an original tranny, original one died at 37+K and was replaced by Honda under "good will" warranty. They installed remanufactured tranny and now I wonder if it will follow the same road as original one.

 

[The Critic]

Precision? I guess they finally have a website. My father used to use them for major services on his '84 Civic when he worked in Pleasanton. They always did a great job and even loaned my father a car. I didn't know that the triple drain/fill was performed, as you mentioned "power flush" in the previous thread. I don't think the Lubegard caused this problem...

 

[ap]

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic: Precision? I guess they finally have a website. My father used to use them for major services on his '84 Civic when he worked in Pleasanton. They always did a great job and even loaned my father a car.

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I like that place too. My friend recommended it to me few years back.

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Originally posted by The Critic: I didn't know that the triple drain/fill was performed, as you mentioned "power flush" in the previous thread.

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I was wrong, they told me my tranny can not be "power flushed" so they did drain/fill several times.

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic: I don't think the Lubegard caused this problem...

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I do not see what else.

 

[The Critic]

VaderSS posted, a while back, that Terry said Lubegard Red contributed to his transmission's longevity, to an extent.

 

[ap]

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic: VaderSS posted, a while back, that Terry said Lubegard Red contributed to his transmission's longevity, to an extent.

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It could be easyly something else like different driving conditions since most of that milage were hot summer highway driving to long distances with car fully loaded.

 

[The Critic]

Seems really high compared to this one though: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000008

 

[unDummy]

Doesn't look bad. With only a 3 quart drain/refill capacity, consider more frequent intervals. And, if you want clean ATF, INSTALL A FILTER. Your fluid is sheared to 6.1 cst. A cooler might also help since viscosity drop is a little high for only 10k miles, assuming VOA is in the ~7 range. What type of driving style?

 

[ap]

How much it would cost me to install cooler & filter? Do they give a warranty (silly question, I know )? I was several told time by different people that after such modifications Honda will flatly refuse to perform any repair if AT fails. Last time I asked in the local shop it was way over 1K Does anybody know good place for such job in SF East Bay Area? Driving style is nothing special I guess, this is a family car after all I autoxed it about 4-5 times between last ATF changes (that includes one day of autox school) but honestly I do not see how 3 or 4 60seconds runs can affect AT. Most of the time car will stay in 2nd or even 1st and perform 1-2upshift once or twice at worse. I did about 10 autox events within that first 12K while AT was brand new yet it had almost no effect on AL level. Go figure.

 

[unDummy]

A cooler and filter are better than paying for UOAs or consultants. Permacool/B&M/Transdapt sell filter kits. I prefer these over the Magnefine simply because you can use normal oil filters(or upgrades). The ATF filter kit costs about $40($80 if you want an ATF temp gauge). ANYONE can install it and it will not void your warranty if installed correctly. Figure about an hour of shop labor. A quality ATF cooler costs about $60. And, some cars might require bumper removal to mount it correctly in front. I prefer ATF coolers that are mounted to frame or crossmember. I do not care for the ziptie kits squeezing it to the A/C condensor or radiator. Figure about 1 to 3 hours of mechanic shop time depending on the elbow room under the hood! BTW, auto-crossing a car voids its warranty so why do you even bother worrying! Coolers and filters do not rob transmission of flow. Any dealer that voids warranty over IMPROVEMENTS to pathetic stock components should be avoided. Warranty can only be voided if added component can be proved as the cause of failure.

 

[The Critic]

I would just leave it alone, and instead drain and refill on a more frequent basis, and use analysis to watch the trends. Sending the UOA to Terry helps. Forget about the filter/cooler. You're simply asking for trouble in the event of a failure. Honda is going to accuse your setup of robbing the transmission of the necessary oil flow and potentially contributing to the failure due to the lack of lubrication. Unless you have the knowledge and ability to quickly "reverse" the mods on the side of the road before it gets towed to the dealer, forget about it.

 

[john_ertw]

The 7th generation Accord does have a transmission filter (along with other newer Honda trannys). The filter can be seen at this web page by choosing "AT OIL LEVEL GAUGE-ATF PIPE (V6)", then click "view these parts!" and it is item 7. It is a little difficult to get to (it's under the air filter box), but it can be changed. On Ody Club, there is a huge thread about changing the auto tranny filter due to some of the tranny issues that were happening with those trannys.

 

[Schmoe]

I"m knocking on wood here as I have a 6th and 7th generation AT V6 Accord, but I was under the impression that the 7th gens have been "fixed" after 2004. Also, at least with my 06 Accord, Honda has a factory warranty of up to 50K miles on powertrain and transmission.

 

[john_ertw]

Schmoe, you're right. Honda "fixed" the V6 transmission midway through the 2004 model year. That is why there is a TSB for all 2003's and only some 2004 models. The TSB deals with low fluid flow to one of the gears (I think it's the 2nd gear) for Accords without the "new & improved" transmission. I haven't changed my AT filter yet, but it is something I will do eventually... maybe when I hit 100,000 miles.

 

[thrace]

quote:

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Honda "fixed" the V6 transmission midway through the 2004 model year

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Not quite true. There was a recall in 2004 to increase lubrication to the 2nd gear in some transmissions. But the main problem of the 5 speed auto is the 3rd clutch pack which wears prematurely, sometimes very prematurely. The recall did not fix the clutch problem.

 

[john_ertw]

quote:

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Originally posted by thrace: Not quite true. There was a recall in 2004 to increase lubrication to the 2nd gear in some transmissions. But the main problem of the 5 speed auto is the 3rd clutch pack which wears prematurely, sometimes very prematurely. The recall did not fix the clutch problem.

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I can't agrue what the exact fix is because I don't know, but from the Accord forums I visit, I have not heard of transmission failures for anything 05 or newer. I have heard of several 03's and a few 04's failing though (and I don't think it has to do with milage since a lot of the failures were fairly early).

 

[The Critic]

We've had two transmission failures in the 2005 Acura TL, with the "updated" BDGA unit. One was at 20,000, the other was at 36,000. The latter was replaced due to a problem with the 3->4 shift, IIRC. I think these were just defective from Day one and are not a trend of failing transmissions.

 

[outersquare]

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic: We've had two transmission failures in the 2005 Acura TL, with the "updated" BDGA unit. One was at 20,000, the other was at 36,000. The latter was replaced due to a problem with the 3->4 shift, IIRC. I think these were just defective from Day one and are not a trend of failing transmissions.

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do you work for a dealership?