2003 Acura TL Type-S. Which oil?

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3
Location
Philadelphia
I bought my 2003 TL Type-S a few months ago, and have since changed my oil and filter with the 5W-20 blend that I bought at the Acura dealer. I drive the car like it was meant to be driven - hard and fast, so I'm considering using a synthetic oil. Previously in other vehicles, I've used Mobil One or Syntec, but neither of those comes in a 5W-20 formulation. That said, I've heard varying opinions as to which synthetic would work best in my car. Some say that Honda specifies 5W-20 just to keep their CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) ratings up. Is this the only reason? Can I just use Mobil 1 5W-30 synthetic in my Acura, or are there unforeseen consequences to doing so??
 
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5,785
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Dixie
Fusion Guy, Mobil 1, 5w-30 or 0w-30 would be my choice in an off the shelf synthetic for this motor. Amsoil does make an API licensed, Group III, 5w-20 synthetic that will also work well, but would be harder to find. What is Acura recommending as a maxium oil change interval in this engine and what is the sump capacity?
 

FusionGuy

Thread starter
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3
Location
Philadelphia
TooSlick, Acura specifies that 5W-20 should be used, however 5W-30 CAN be used, but should be replaced after the next oil change. I found that statement vague to say the least... The capacity with a filter change is 4.7 US Qts. I believe. I have looked at the Amsoil XL-7500 5W-20, but it's expensive, and as you mentioned, hard to find. I think I'm just going to stick with the Mobil 1 5W-30 Super Syn unless I hear compelling evidence against it. Thanks for you input. [Big Grin]
 
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5,785
Location
Dixie
FusionGuy, Honda/Acura was recommending 5w-30 grades up until about 2-3 years ago. I don't know of any design changes that would make a 5w-20 necessary and the Mobil 1, 5w-30 has shown excellent analysis results. The Acura V-6 shows fairly high bearing wear in the analysis samples I've seen, so going to the 30wt can only help ....
 
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10
Location
Alberta, Canada
quote:
Originally posted by FusionGuy: That said, I've heard varying opinions as to which synthetic would work best in my car. Some say that Honda specifies 5W-20 just to keep their CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) ratings up. Is this the only reason?
I'm no expert like most of the members here but this is my experience so far.. I have an '02 RSX and when I put 5W30 Amsoil into it my mileage went down the drain. After switching to 0W30 it came back up to where it was with factory 5W20. Not sure what caused it, if it's the "energy conserving" rating of 0/30 or what. I would've used Mobil 1 but 0W30 is unavailable in my area, yet. 28,000 km on the car, 2,000 km on the new oil so far. Never needed top up since brand new, oil changes approx. 8,000 km apart.
 
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447
Location
USA
Quality of the oil and engine life may be far less of a problem than transmission failure on the Acura TL and similar CL, especially the Type S. Unfortunately, except for replacing the transmission, there is no consensus on how to prolong transmission life in these problematic vehicles. http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=8f41c1a278aa01e31369ce6458ece800&forumid=126 Here are some excerpts from the now famous Los Angeles Times article about Acura Honda Transmissions. "Honda's Unexpected Gear Shift " By JOHN O'DELL, TIMES STAFF WRITER "Matthew Veno spotted an opening in the early-morning rush-hour traffic and stabbed the accelerator. His year-old Acura TL Type-S surged forward, hitting close to 80 mph on Boston's Route 3. Then, with no warning, the five-speed automatic transmission slipped from fifth to second, pulling the car up as sharply as if he had slammed on the brakes. ""Fortunately, the people behind me were able to swerve, so there wasn't an accident," the 23-year-old computer engineer recalled. "But it could have been pretty bad." "When Veno's $34,000 Acura spontaneously downshifted, the engine kept racing and the crankshaft revolutions, or RPMs, went through the roof, kicking in a limiter that cuts off the engine to avoid damage. ""That caused even more jerkiness, and at 80 it started the car swerving from side to side on a two-lane highway. I almost slammed into a construction barrier," Veno said. "It was the scariest time I've ever had in a car. If the traction control hadn't been on, I would have lost it." "It is one of almost 16,000 Honda and Acura automatic transmissions American Honda Motor Co. has replaced in the last two years, leading some owners to begin questioning the company's reputation for building bulletproof cars. "Others, such as Kathy Lammens, say American Honda should order an immediate recall. ""They need to do it for the people's sake," said the 38-year-old Placentia resident, whose 2001 Acura CL's automatic transmission failed completely the day after it slipped into second gear at 65 mph on the Costa Mesa Freeway late last month. ""It felt like I'd suddenly slammed on the brakes," she said, "but the engine was straining.... And there was no one behind me, which is good because the brake lights don't go on when that happens, so there's no warning to anyone following." "Lammens said her Acura dealer agreed immediately to replace the transmission but told her he could not give her a completion date. ""I asked why, and I was stunned," she said. Lammens was told she was 27th on a regional waiting list for replacement of five-speed automatic transmissions for late-model Acura CLs. "Mike Spencer, a spokesman for Acura, Honda's sport-luxury division, confirmed that there has been a "higher than normal incidence" of problems with two Honda-built automatic transmissions. Although many involve high-performance models such as the 260-horsepower Acura Type-S, others afflict 200-horsepower V-6 Honda Accords and 240-horsepower Odyssey minivans not usually associated with racing and speeding abuses. "The two transmissions are the five-speed used in V-6-equipped Acuras since the 2000 model year and in Honda Odysseys since the 2002 model year; and the four-speed automatic used in V-6 Honda Accords since 2000 and in 2000 and 2001 Odysseys. "Of 1 million vehicles sold in the U.S. with those transmissions, Spencer said, Honda has replaced the transmissions in about 16,000, or 1.6%. "Spencer said the number and severity of transmission problems, though exceeding Honda's tolerance, are not enough to warrant a recall. "Nor has Honda issued a service bulletin to alert dealers to the potential for trouble, he said. "Company policy prohibits dealers from opening transmission cases--"If there's a problem under warranty, the whole transmission is replaced," Spencer said--and the problem transmissions cannot be identified until the problem occurs. "So a bulletin, which typically provides instructions for repairing a problem when the customer takes in a vehicle for service, would do no good. "Spencer said Honda engineers identified the root of the problems a few months ago and have redesigned the transmissions. "The four-speed models were afflicted with a bad bearing that could break apart, scattering fragments of metal that clogged fluid passageways in the transmission, causing it to shift erratically, he said. "The five-speed models typically were damaged by premature wear of the third-gear clutch pack. As the clutch friction material abraded, it scattered bits inside the transmission case, clogging fluid lines and causing erratic shifting. "Honda and Acura dealers are replacing affected transmissions under warranty--typically with factory rebuilt transmissions, a standard industry practice, Spencer said. He said customers such as Lammens have been caught in an unusual situation because Honda has never had a run of bad transmissions and thus has never had to stockpile replacement parts. When the four-and five-speed automatics started breaking, he said, a backlog quickly developed. ""But we are trying to get parts into the system, and in the meantime we are providing loaners at no cost so our customers won't be without transportation," he said. "That has come in especially handy for a few Acura owners whose cars were out of service several times before Honda engineers found the cause of the problem. "Several on an Internet forum for Acura owners have complained of having to replace transmissions several times before getting one that did not self-destruct. Not all own older vehicles either. "Jim Mincy, a Michigan real estate broker, said in an e-mail interview that his 7-month-old 2003 Acura TL Type-S is headed back to the dealer for its second replacement transmission. "Most of those interviewed had no complaints about how Honda and its dealers have treated them. But many echoed Veno, who said his problem transmission will haunt him--and Acura--for a long time. ""I bought this car because of the company's reputation for quality. I was going to buy a Honda product and drive it for 250,000 miles," he said. "But now I can guarantee you that when the warranty is up, the car is gone. And this will probably be in my mind when I go looking for a replacement." "...Honda owners with transmission concerns should call the company's customer service hotline at (800) 999-1009; Acura owners should call (800) 382-2238. ""We are definitely keeping an eye on this, and if it looks like the issue is growing, we'll take other steps" that could include extending warranties for replacement transmissions that now are covered only by the remainder of the original new-car powertrain warranty of five years or 50,000 miles, Spencer said. "That's good, said Joshua Pai, a 23-year-old electronics engineer from Anaheim who worries about his Acura TL's longevity after its recent transmission failure. ""But I wish they'd do more," he said. "There's bound to be someone in an accident because of this, and that will be terrible. They really should recall them all."
 

FusionGuy

Thread starter
Messages
3
Location
Philadelphia
thrace, I've ready Mr. O' Dell's article and even got a chance to speak to him. There has been problems with previous model years for the 3rd gear in particular, but this has since been corrected and Honda extends the warranties on vehicles that are suspect. Mine however is not suseptible to this transmission failure. Now, to get back to my original post, it was regarding motor oil... [Off Topic!]
 
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948
Location
st. Louis
The consensus on this site has been that for on the shelf brands, Mobil 1 SS is the best. Go with manufacturer's reccommended weight and change schedule. Schaeffer's is great too. Harder to find, though you can order from several of the site sponsors. Amsoil and Redline are excellent oils but at a higher price. You probably won't find them at a local store. Although they are unsurpassed in performance and quality, many of their oil do not carry the API seal of approval. To avoid warranty disputes, you might want to stick with Mobil 1 or Schaeffer's for now.
 
I noticed that Royal Purple has a 5W-20 motor oil. I did not study the information on the web page. However, I recall it is SL rated and GF-3 certified. In this area most of the NAPA Auto Parts stores carry Royal Purple.
 
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6
Location
friendswood
As a proud owner of a '03 TL-S, I used AMSOIL 7500 5W-30 @ my 1st oil change, but darn that stuff is a pain to acquire & expensive. Now I use M1 SS 5W-30 in the 5 Quart jug. ( ala Wal-Mart) I also use a M1 filter. I change my oil every 7500 miles. I live on the Gulf coast coast of Texas, so it doesn't get all that cold down here. Oh...& I qualify for a new transmission if mine fails. I do 90% highway miles @ 60mph. 60 miles per day. I've been averaging 29.5 mpg! Randy B
 
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5,785
Location
Dixie
Randy, What is Acura recommending as a transmission fluid change interval on this five speed unit? I know it is not the usual Dexron III fluid .... thanks! TS
 
Messages
6
Location
friendswood
Beats me....Whatever Acura trans fluid is...the scheduled interval is 30k. There was a lot of chatter about how smaller intervals helped, but that was only chatter. Like Fusionguy said, it's the 3rd gear band thing that crumbles apart. All the fluid changes in the world won't help it. I've got just under 10k miles with no problems yet.
 
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