2002 Tacoma 3.4L 5VZFE | M1 5W40 TDT |9,764 Miles

Messages
139
Location
Minnesota
Blackstone comments: This the best report we'v seen so far for your Toyota. It's a bit unclear what caused the high iron last time, but that's in the past. High copper is in the past as well, and this engine matches up just fine with universal averages. As a reminder, universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of engine after about 5,900 miles on the oil. The TBN is 3.3, showing active additive left for a longer oil run next time and with wear looking this good you might as well. No fuel or coolant showed up and air and oil filtration are fine. Try 12,000 miles next and check back. Miles on oil: 9,764 Miles on Unit: 129,861 Makeup oil: 0 qts ALUMINUM - 1 CHROMIUM - 0 IRON - 7 COPPER - 5 LEAD - 5 TIN - 1 MOLYBDENUM - 7 NICKEL - 4 MANGANESE - 0 SILVER - 0 TITANIUM - 0 POTASSIUM - 2 BORON - 37 SILICON - 8 SODIUM - 6 CALCIUM - 1326 MAGNESIUM - 632 PHOSPHORUS - 828 ZINC - 1062 BARIUM - 0 SUS Viscosity @ 210°F - 76.0 cSt Viscosity @ 100°C - 14.5 Flashpoint in °F - 395 Fuel % - <0.5 Antifreeze % - 0 Water % - 0 Insolubles % - 0.2 TBN - 3.3 Oil was in for 5 months and I used a Mobil 1 oil filter. Refilled with Pennzoil Ultra. I pulled a sample due to switching to the M1 TDT to see how it held up (never ran it before). The iron, copper, and lead are the lowest numbers I've seen. Previous UOA is HERE
 
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Messages
5,790
Location
North Texas
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Impressive but why 40W?
Low wear numbers?
How's 40w going to provide lower numbers? Granted his are pretty good.
 

CT8

Messages
15,392
Location
Idaho
Through the miracle of viscosity ??? There is nothing wrong with the 40 . We should also consider the use of the p/u. Short 1 mile trips would show vastly different numbers that 500 mile freeway trips. Also loaded and unloaded operation also should be considered.
 
Messages
524
Location
sc/fl
Great wear numbers. TDT is definitely one of the better oils out there. I'm seriously considering running it in my bike. I'm curious to see if it can stand up to 12k RPM, and for how long.
 

madibob

Thread starter
Messages
139
Location
Minnesota
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Impressive but why 40W?
I have a large stash of TDT I bought on a big Autozone sale last year (bought it for my Diesels). So I thought I'd dump it in for the summer months and save the Pennzoil Ultra I have for the winters. Though I'm now curious how TDT would do over the winter.
Originally Posted By: CT8
We should also consider the use of the p/u. Short 1 mile trips would show vastly different numbers that 500 mile freeway trips. Also loaded and unloaded operation also should be considered.
This is my daily driver. This run was mainly 60 mile round trips (unloaded) to work with an additional 100 mile trip once a week. There were no "road trips" on this run.
 
Messages
5,707
Location
WatUpDoc
This UOA doesn't appear much better than the PU at all, IMO. You changed the oil in 4 months less time with nearly the same mileage, plus you notably state that you short trip it only 1.5 miles to work during the PU run. This means the TDT fill got to see a lot more miles and probably longer trips, right? Also, the PU was starting to get really low wrt TBN by the time you changed it probably due to all of the short tripping and letting it stay in there perhaps too long (let's say cap that previous winter run to 6-7 months or 9k). If you get another sample with PU and no engine problems are present, I'd wager the numbers would look better than the previous run of PU if you don't go as far in terms of months. Good choice for the winter with PU. TDT looked to hold up just fine over the summer months, at the same time. thumbsup Keep it up and remember not to overkill your OCIs when you are in severe service!
 
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madibob

Thread starter
Messages
139
Location
Minnesota
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
This UOA doesn't appear much better than the PU at all, IMO. You changed the oil in 4 months less time with nearly the same mileage, plus you notably state that you short trip it only 1.5 miles to work during the PU run. This means the TDT fill got to see a lot more miles and probably longer trips, right? Also, the PU was starting to get really low wrt TBN by the time you changed it probably due to all of the short tripping and letting it stay in there perhaps too long (let's say cap that previous winter run to 6-7 months or 9k). If you get another sample with PU and no engine problems are present, I'd wager the numbers would look better than the previous run of PU if you don't go as far in terms of months. !
Big picture they are fairly equivalent in this truck, but TDT might have a slight edge. As another reference, this UOA HERE from a few years ago was PU with only a 4 month OCI. This included one long 4500 mile trip over 3 weeks. TBN was lower on PU with a shorter time interval than the TDT here. I always disregarded the high copper since I think it was from the oil cooler.
 
Messages
5,707
Location
WatUpDoc
Originally Posted By: madibob
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
This UOA doesn't appear much better than the PU at all, IMO. You changed the oil in 4 months less time with nearly the same mileage, plus you notably state that you short trip it only 1.5 miles to work during the PU run. This means the TDT fill got to see a lot more miles and probably longer trips, right? Also, the PU was starting to get really low wrt TBN by the time you changed it probably due to all of the short tripping and letting it stay in there perhaps too long (let's say cap that previous winter run to 6-7 months or 9k). If you get another sample with PU and no engine problems are present, I'd wager the numbers would look better than the previous run of PU if you don't go as far in terms of months. !
Big picture they are fairly equivalent in this truck, but TDT might have a slight edge. As another reference, this UOA HERE from a few years ago was PU with only a 4 month OCI. This included one long 4500 mile trip over 3 weeks. TBN was lower on PU with a shorter time interval than the TDT here. I always disregarded the high copper since I think it was from the oil cooler.
One thing to note is that TBN in Ultra isn't necessarily going to appear to last as long as compared to a HDEO since they generally are a more robust oil in this area, so not a linear comparison even if virgin analysis were to show similar starting points(I would like to see the specs for fun). Again, even though you had a long trip that is easy on oil, but the overall use was in the winter with cold starts, correct? So, mileage matters some but if you see enough severe service that kind of mileage in a short time isn't enough to counter the uses with the rest of the mileage in that time span having seen severe service. You could also try Rotalla T6 at this point the 5w-40 if you wanted another HDEO side-by-side. Not for wear purposes but more of a true A/B/A. Swapping to a PCMO in winter and HDEO in summer just won't tell you much. That's why it's better to consider the context, IMO. I'm sure that's why the TBN held up better on THAT PU OCI than the other which was obviously too long, yet it held it's own. CLARITY: Are you changing once a year or have you been changing with seasons in mind? TDT/HDEOs in summer, PU in winter, etc?
 
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madibob

Thread starter
Messages
139
Location
Minnesota
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Again, even though you had a long trip that is easy on oil, but the overall use was in the winter with cold starts, correct?
Not really. That previous UOA in 2011 was the easiest OCI this truck ever had. I was in California at the time, so warm temps. Drove back to Minnesota for 2 weeks and then headed back. So, yes, there were some cold starts in MN for a couple weeks, but most of the starts in in CA. Also, my drive to MN and back to CA was just stopping for gas. This OCI with TDT did have some very cold starts on it too as our November of 2014 was one of the coldest on record.
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
You could also try Rotalla T6 at this point the 5w-40 if you wanted another HDEO side-by-side. Not for wear purposes but more of a true A/B/A.
I think there's a lot of things that could be done. I didn't do this to see which is 'better'. I had the stash of TDT and dumped it in for the summer. I was just curious on how it would do.
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
CLARITY: Are you changing once a year or have you been changing with seasons in mind? TDT/HDEOs in summer, PU in winter, etc?
I have used PU exclusively for the past several oil changes. I change it every 10K, which is generally 4-6 months. This is the first time I used a different oil just because of the stash and thought in summer it'd be fine. I'll probably do it again next summer as I have more TDT than PU and this UOA was just fine. I doubt I'll send in another sample soon though, this showed me all I needed. smile
 

madibob

Thread starter
Messages
139
Location
Minnesota
I played around and was able to put the whole UOA history in block text for comparison.
Code:
OIL BRAND	Mobil 1 TDT	Pennz Ultra	Pennz Ultra	Pennz Ultra	Mobil 1 EP	
OIL		5W-40		5W-30		5W-30		5W-30		5W-30	
MILES IN USE	9,764		10,167		13,122		10,246		9,080
MONTHS IN USE	5		-		8		4		8		
MILES		129,861		110,167		78,458		65,336		55,090
SAMPLE TAKEN	12/06/2014	6/28/2013	8/12/2011	12/30/2010	8/29/2010	UNIVERSAL
MAKEUP OIL	0 qts		0 qts		0 qts		0.5 qts		0 qts		AVERAGES

ALUMINUM	1		4		3		3		4		2
CHROMIUM	0		0		0		0		0		0
IRON		7		21		11		8		9		7
COPPER		5		6		17		17		56		4
LEAD		5		3		4		2		4		3
TIN		1		0		0		0		1		1
MOLYBDENUM	7		45		45		43		80		87
NICKEL		4		3		3		3		2		0
MANGANESE	0		1		0		0		0		0
SILVER		0		0		0		0		0		0
TITANIUM	0		0		0		0		0		1
POTASSIUM	2		0		0		0		0		2
BORON		37		210		182		172		53		44
SILICON		8		10		11		9		9		13
SODIUM		6		5		8		7		17		49
CALCIUM		1326		2663		2749		2416		2074		2139
MAGNESIUM	632		13		15		13		12		139
PHOSPHORUS	828		771		666		694		646		715
ZINC		1062		749		708		632		640		850
BARIUM		0		0		0		0		0		0
     
SUS [email protected]°F	76.0		57.7		64.3		56.1		56.8
cSt [email protected]°C	14.5		9.57		11.41		9.09		9.29
FLASHPOINT °F	395		390		390		390		385
FUEL %		<0.5		<0.5		<0.5		<0.5		<0.5
ANTIFREEZE %	0		0		0		0		0
WATER %		0		0		0		0		0
INSOLUBLES %	0.2		0.3		0.3		0.3		0.4
TBN		3.3		1.5		2.1		2.3		2.5
 
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