2002 Honda Accord V6 Auto 7518 mile OCI GC (green) 47794 total miles

[benjamming]

2002 Accord 3.0L V6 4-speed automatic
Mainly city-driven, 3 miles each way to work M-F, weekend trips
German Castrol M04 green batch
AMSOIL SDF-20 oil filter used
0.5 qt GC "M04" oil added at 45,720 miles
Oil & filter changed when sample was taken May-12-2006
7,518 miles on oil - 7.5 months
47,794 miles on car
Blackstone did the UOA

1st #: Current
2nd #: AMSOIL 5W20 7,506 miles
3rd #: AMSOIL 5W20 5,084 miles

Aluminum 2/3/3
Chromium 1/1/2
Iron 9/9/12
Copper 24/30/34
Lead 40/7/8
Tin 1/4/1
Molybdenum 1/1/0
Nickel 0/0/1
Manganese 1/1/0
Silver 0/0/0
Titanium 0/0/0
Potassium 0/0/3
Boron 0/1/4
Silicon 5/8/5
Sodium 1/4/1
Calcium 2510/2634/2633
Magnesium 113/35/88
Phosphorus 703/662/696
Zinc 859/797/773
Barium 0/0/0
Flashpoint 375°F/365°F/375°F
Fuel Viscosity 65.2/54.2/52.2 SUS
Water = 0.0/0.0/0.0
Antifreeze = 0.0/0.0/0.0
Insolubles 0.5/0.4/0.4
TBN = 2.7/2.6/3.6

FP60 was used in maintenance dose at the rate of 1 oz/5-gal. OEM Air filter was last changed ~ 30k miles with OEM.

Oil was drained at this sample & refilled with Castrol 0W30 green - M04 & K&N oil filter.

History newest to oldest:
2002 Honda Accord V6 AMSOIL 0W30 11,146 miles OCI 27,677 miles on car
2002 Accord V6 AMSOIL 0W30 9,731 miles OCI 16,531 miles on car
Factory fill 6,800 miles

 

[ekpolk]

Hmmmmm, what's with that lead??? Your Si is not elevated, so would it be right to assume the Pb is not from dirt grinding bearings?

I really like what GC does in many engines. Especially mine, but mine is a VQ35, which is known to like thicker oil. Give the stellar results we've seen from Hondas and Fords that are spec-ed for, and fed, 5w-20, I'm thinking that perhaps the green just isn't what you need. OTOH, maybe it's just a one time "particle streak" and has nothing to do with the oil. In any event, I'd watch carefully as a jump from 7 to 40 ppm of lead just doesn't seem right.

Time to call Terry Dyson in if you haven't already. If he helps you arrest a potential disaster in the making, you will recover what you pay him many, many times over. No, I'm not a shill or investor, paid or otherwise, just a happy customer.

 

[Pablo]

The lead looks freakish. But maybe more southern leaded gas????

Other than that (and vis) Amsoil 5W-20 Grp III looks pretty much the same as GC 0W-30!!

 

[TooSlick]

There is nothing in this analysis that would indicate an engine problem developing. The spike in Pb may simply be from changing additive chemistries.

Aside from the lead, the GC and the Amsoil XL performed about the same....

TS

 

[ekpolk]

TS:

You can't tell from this UOA whether or not there is a problem. Would you bet your next paycheck that there is, with certainty, no problem at all? My point is that, at a minimum, a deviation like that bears watching, and it would be nice to confirm or rule out a problem. BTW, my first use of GC followed a fill of Amsoil 5w-30 (ASL), and I saw no such spike in Pb. Of course, my car then was a V-6 Camry, and it's not precisely the same Amsoil product. OTOH, we've seen plenty of instances of members posting their UOA on their first run of GC and lead spiking is certainly not typically seen in these transitional fills.

Results like this aren't much good at answering questions, but they can help spot issues that may become real problems later on.

 

[Schmoe]

I'd think that both lead and copper are too high.

 

[benjamming]

Thanks for the replies. I thought it was a good report until I saw the lead. Lab error maybe? Should I ask for a retest? Copper continues to drop slowly. The silicon even dropped ever so slightly. I'm going to do another 7500 mile OCI & have Blackstone do another report then. I'll send that one to Terry.
I was surprised to see the GC & 5W20 Group III oil perform pretty much the same. However, insolubles are getting pretty high this time around. Is there too much crap in there that caused a particle streak like ekpolk suggested?

 

[Ray H]

Previous UOAs of Honda V6s shows they spit copper. Notice, too that the copper is trending down, not up. However, implying except for the lead reading the UOA's fine, is like hearing from your physician, "Except for the left ventrical not working, your heart's great!" Hopefully the affected bearing(s) just spun a particle through and it's now lodged securely in the oil filter. The next UOA should give a clearer indication whether there's something to actually be worried about. For now, that lone reading's more a "notation of interest".

 

[TooSlick]

ekpolk,

I was actually thinking this spike could be from overdozing with fuel additive during this service interval? That practice seems to cause elevated Pb levels as much as anything else I commonly see. The Cu and Sn levels would suggest that nothing is mechanically wrong here and I'd almost suspect a typo on the data sheet.

The other question I had is why the almighty green GC/0w-30 didn't seem to outperform the lowly, Group III based, 9 TBN, Amsoil XL 5w-20? It's practically heresy...

I might bet YOUR paycheck that nothing is wrong here.

 

[ekpolk]

TS:

1) That's another very possible possibility. Also a chance of having been served up some gas with Pb in it. Typo also within the realm of credible responses. I didn't mean to suggest that this Pb spike, in and of itself, is a sure harbinger of doom. I do think that it calls for further examination, in whatever fashion the owner prefers or can afford, to either confirm or rule out causes.

2) As I've often said, while GC is magic

, it's only magic for engines susceptible to such magic. An engine meant to use 20 wt oil is not likely a good candidate for green-ness.

3) Too easy a wager -- for you!

 

[benjamming]

Just a little bit more information:
23.7 mpg during previous AMSOIL XL 5W20 OCI (Mar-Sep 2005) "summer months", AMSOIL PI & then Redline SI-1 used after AMSOIL PI ran out
22.4 mpg during GC OCI (Oct 2005 - May 2006) "winter months", FP60 only used