2001 Saab 9-3SE, Redline 0w40, 8000km (5000miles)

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2001 Saab 9-3 SE Mods: 3inch exhaust,Stock boost (15psi) Temps: Dec-April -30c to +15c (mostly -10c ish) Car has an oil sump heater which was used everyday(heats the oil to +40c), almost 50% of cold starts had the oil heater on. Mileage L/100km: 8.0-9.0L/100Km Kilometers on engine 146,000 Kilometers on oil 8,000 Make Up Oil 0 Amsoil Ea026 filter (added 2 Liters to a total of 6L )OEM is 4 Liters I really liked this oil, car seemed to run smooth even when it was really cold out, will be sticking with this oil for next winter. PS. I love the oil pan heater, car starts as if it was summer temps. Redline 0w40, 2nd column Motul 5w40 8100 xcess Aluminum 2/2 Chromium 0/1 Iron 10/10 Copper 4/6 Lead 2/2 Tin 4/1 Moly 522/4 Nickel 0 Manganese 0 Silver 0 Ti 0 Potassium 2 Boron 58/2 Silicon 27/17 Sodium 17/12 Calcium 2015/1553 Magnesium 72/771 Phosphorus 895/837 Zinc 1055/1069 Barium 0 Sus Visc @ 210F 72.7 should be 55-62 cST Visc @ 100 C 13.65 should be 8.8-11.1 Flashpoint in F 400 should be >365 Fuel % <0.5 should be <2.0 Antifreeze 0.0 Water % 0.0 should be <0.1 Insolubles % 0.0 should be <0.6 TBN 3.7 Black Stone: This Red Line 0W/40 contains quite a bit more molybdenum (anti-wear additive) than the last oil that you sampled. After this most recent oil change interval of 8,000 km, wear continues to look good here and no harmful contaminants were found. The viscosity of the oil read in the 40W range. The TBN read 3.7 so you still had quite a bit of active additive left, though not as much as last time. We think the silicon here is harmless silicone product, as wear wasn't affected by it. As of 07/01/09, we have no problems to report.
 
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why does blackstone say max cSt should be 11.1 for a 40 weight? Nice to finally see a UOA on this oil. Virgin silicon for RL 5w40 is usually 16-18ppm, I wonder what it is for this oil. How does the ending viscosity of the RL compare to the Motul?
 

Saab9-3

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Motul end visc was 12.95. so a little thinner, but protected just the same. Not sure why, maybe its a typo, but I am unable to edit it now \:\(
 
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JAG

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I wonder if the spike in Tin is from Tin oxidation layer removal. Hopefully it will go back down in the 2nd fill of Red Line. All else looks good.
 
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 Originally Posted By: JAG
I wonder if the spike in Tin is from Tin oxidation layer removal.
Good question. I often see high tin in RL UOA's. Don't know what to make of it. It's not an additive either AFAIK. LOL
 

Saab9-3

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thanks for the replies. I will have a UOA of RL 10w40 in my now modded saab that has a track day on it in the next month or so. Hopefully Tin will be down.
 
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 Originally Posted By: JAG
I wonder if the spike in Tin is from Tin oxidation layer removal. Hopefully it will go back down in the 2nd fill of Red Line.
JAG, I'm struggling to understand what is acutally going on at the metal oxide layer and maybe you can help me get my mind around it. I have a picture in my mind of the polar molecules "scouring/scavaging" the oxidation layer and removing some of the metal oxides. Then this is the primary place where the Moly DTC "platelets" would bind. Does that sound in theory like what would happen? And Moly is sort of in competition for those binding sites along with ZDDP, etc.? I trying to connect info. posted recently on moly/nano particles and my limited understand of how esters work. Also, I noticed that redline formulations which contain high Moly also have Boron, while the non-moly formulations do not. Any thoughts you have that help explain this seemingly complex interaction of esters, ZDDP, Moly, and Boron at the metal oxide layer would be much appreciated. Here is another slide from that CRODA presentation which shows the layers. From http://www.crodalubricants.com/download.aspx?s=133&m=doc&id=258 And this one from BITOG showing a super magnification of a "highly polished metal surface" And another CRODA slide of surface competition
 
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Interesting diagram that illustrates the complexity of oil formulation.
 

JAG

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saaber1, I think I've seen much better research on this subject than what I've pasted below, but I must not be using great search terms...I Googled "ester bearing corrosion tin" and similar terms. I give up for now. Maybe you can find some other research online on this subject. Anyhow, from the quote below, it sounds like the acidic decomposition products of esters are what can do the most attacking of soft bearing overlays, not the virgin esters themselves. I'm not sure if moly plays a part in Red Line's propensity to sometimes raise used oil concentrations of soft bearing overlay metals. There is a good opportunity to test this since the 5W-40 current version lacks moly, while most other viscosity grades have a lot of moly, as you know. 5W-40 and 10W-40 could be tested to find out. I think those two oils are otherwise quite similar, though with some differences, of course. http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/114050587/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
 Quote:
Abstract The corrosion of soft metals in ester base fluids was studied. Leaded red brass, babbitt, lead and tin were investigated in different natural and synthetic ester base fluids. The base fluids were tested neat or with added oleic acid to model oxidation and hydrolysis. In a few experiments, water was added. The metal specimens were brought into contact with the base fluid under either static or dynamic conditions. The corrosion degree was measured both on the metal specimen (gravimetrically) and in the oil (wear metal analysis). Larger weight losses were observed for the babbitt material than for the leaded red brass. A higher corrosion rate was observed for ester base fluids with a lower hydrolytic stability. Experiments under dynamic conditions gave rise to higher rates of corrosion. Generally, higher corrosion rates were observed for high levels of added oleic acid. Additionally, a polished specimen surface seemed to promote corrosion in this work. Copyright © 2006 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
 
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