2000 Kawasaki W650 10w-40 Quaker State Advanced Durability API:SN 16K Miles

[natas]

Previous owner changed oil every 1,000 miles with QSAD 10w40. I wasn't sure how far along miles-wise the fresh oil in the bike was when I bought it, I figured under 500 miles--as it was still clean. I went ahead and got an oil analysis on the oil for piece of mind when I changed it myself for the first time. Instead of going back with QS, I put Shell T4 Rotella 15w-40 instead. I'll do another UOA at 17K and compare to this one. So far, the Rotella seems to run just fine, but in all fairness, the QS that was in there originally didn't seem bad either. If anything, the Rotella gives slightly smoother shifting, but it could have been me since I'm a n00b rider that's learning more/getting better each time I ride.

 

[Bonz]

Looks like a nice report, I would say the heavier base weight Rotella has better than a 50-50 chance of feeling better for shift quality based on my experience with different bikes over the years. And "should" hold shift quality longer because it does not use as much viscosity index improvers to get to it's 40 weight compared to the 10w40 Quaker State. The less viscosity index improver, the less there is to shear.

 

[bubbatime]

Isnt the Moly too high for a wet sump bike? I thought you wanted under 60 or 80 PPM?

 

[sunruh]

Originally Posted by bubbatime

Isnt the Moly too high for a wet sump bike? I thought you wanted under 60 or 80 PPM?

oh jezzzz not in the slightest. several ive tested have been over 100. hello 1980s calling....try going into 2020 where thats not the truth.

 

[sunruh]

natas (the OP) wow for once....and yes its a rarity, the text from the stoners is worth more than a wooden nickle. the flash of 435 certainly shows NO fuel. the susvis of 68.6 says its still a 40wt (requires 68.28) if only barely every thing looks good with 1 exception. silicon of 20. that is high for a road bike of only 1000 or 500mi or whatever it was. its so high that i went and checked my reports...i have just 3 out of 90 that are over 20...on a dirtbike thats raced in extremly dusty conditions. so is this leaching from gasket sealers or really sand/dirt past the filter? you need to look for air leaks. and if its really from an air leak...we should be seeing more wear metals. which maybe the lead+tin but yet alum+iron are low. somethings very fishy about this steve

 

[natas]

I guess I can get some starter fluid and start spraying and listening for changes.The filter that was on there was a HiFlo filter. When I changed the oil, I went with a Wix 51358. When I checked the air filters they seemed to be ok. Found a dead bug, and when I put them back in oil was oozing out the side where the filter slides in a little--so the filters are/were oiled up. I'm actually a little surprised, if you think I have an air-leak somewhere. I'll keep an eye on it. I wonder if I should just wait 1k miles and compare and see if those silicon numbers remain the same or not? Also I should note that the previous owner did state he rode "hard" on his bikes. Not sure if that would correlate to these UOA numbers. I'm not at the skill level to ride "hard". I usually keep my RPMs around 2.5-3k. Sometimes to 4K, but I haven't gone balls to the wall yet.

 

[Bonz]

You said you had oil oozing out, is that a K&N filter in a stock airbox? You mention filters (plural), are you running pods? Otherwise wouldn't you just have an air box with one filter? Not familiar with that bike however. I can't recall a time even with pod filters that oil oozes anywhere. Something may be over oiled when oil starts to ooze...? As for moly content, Red Line runs close to 500 PPM or more in MC oils. They run a lot of zinc and high phosphorus as well as high calcium. They tout extended drain intervals and with that additive package I can sure see it. The silicon could be from any type of sealer or gasket maker.

 

[natas]

It's the stock air filters. There are 2 air-boxes (or one combined), connected via each carb (2). So each carb boot goes into the airbox, and on each side (under the side cover) there is a removable air filter. The filter media resembles 1970s green shaggy carpet. According to the owners/service manual you are supposed to clean the air filters in motor oil, ring/squeeze them out and install. Since being doused in oil, when putting the filters back into their slots, as the edges of the filter slide into the slots, there is a slight "squeegee effect" as a little oil oozes out where it might rub a little. I'm not aware of any gasket/sealers done on this bike, but I could be wrong. The mileage on the oil was prob up to 500 miles. So I'm wondering if I take it to 1k miles if the silicon would show double what was found here--if I do have a leak somewhere. I'm actually wondering if I should do a UOA at 500 miles like this one, and have a better comparison. I don't care about "wasting oil" since I can get the Rotella for around $12-13/gal. If the silicon goes down, then it must have been something residual. I dunno. Sucks..I haven't rode in about a week. And rain is on the way.

 

[Bonz]

LOL, I haven't been on a bike and five or six weeks here in Colorado. The ZRX 1200 is getting itchy for a ride. Unless you're in a freaking dustbowl, even a filter housing that's not sealed shouldn't let in that much "silicon" in 500 miles in my estimation. But thanks for explaining there are dual filters, now I can visualize the setup and how the residual oil would be along the edge. I think you're simply throwing money in the oil analysis if you do another one at 500 more miles. It's really clear there's nothing wrong with the engine, and if everything is sealed up like it should be, it simply is what it is for that silicon reading.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted by bubbatime

Isnt the Moly too high for a wet sump bike? I thought you wanted under 60 or 80 PPM?

Mileage not Moly is the observed cause of clutch slippage... Redline MC is not only heavy on moly 300ppm but also JASO MA approved... mounting evidence that Moly will not and has never been the culprit responsible for clutch slip... look to high mileage...

 

[Bonz]

That we can agree on BLS. On another thought along those lines, guys on the Yamaha XS1100 forum talk down on synthetic oil because some have "used it once" and the clutch started to slip. I haven't seen info showing any type of synthetic motor oil, group 3 or group 4 or whatever other types there are, as containing a different package that would do that even in motorcycle specific oils. My point being, it's the age of what now could be a 38-42 year-old clutch.

 

[natas]

Originally Posted by sunruh

natas (the OP) wow for once....and yes its a rarity, the text from the stoners is worth more than a wooden nickle. the flash of 435 certainly shows NO fuel. the susvis of 68.6 says its still a 40wt (requires 68.28) if only barely every thing looks good with 1 exception. silicon of 20. that is high for a road bike of only 1000 or 500mi or whatever it was. its so high that i went and checked my reports...i have just 3 out of 90 that are over 20...on a dirtbike thats raced in extremly dusty conditions. so is this leaching from gasket sealers or really sand/dirt past the filter? you need to look for air leaks. and if its really from an air leak...we should be seeing more wear metals. which maybe the lead+tin but yet alum+iron are low. somethings very fishy about this steve

Originally Posted by Bonz

LOL, I haven't been on a bike and five or six weeks here in Colorado. The ZRX 1200 is getting itchy for a ride. Unless you're in a freaking dustbowl, even a filter housing that's not sealed shouldn't let in that much "silicon" in 500 miles in my estimation. But thanks for explaining there are dual filters, now I can visualize the setup and how the residual oil would be along the edge. I think you're simply throwing money in the oil analysis if you do another one at 500 more miles. It's really clear there's nothing wrong with the engine, and if everything is sealed up like it should be, it simply is what it is for that silicon reading.

So I took out the filters and upon inspection, one of them, the seal/weatherstripping which goes all around the outside edge of the filter was starting to come apart. In fact, it looked like it had awhile ago because there seemed to be glue residue along the side from previous repair attempts. At the time, I figured I would just glue the portion that had come undone after cleaning the filters. So I made a batch of "maybe a little too strong" simple green and dunked the 1st filter in, and very gently ran my finger across the filter to get any dirt/debrie free and cleaned off. The filter media started to come apart/break free. Time for new filters. Ordered 2 new sets. When I got them, I poured motor oil on them per the owners manual. Then took paper towels and pressed on the media to soak up excess oil. I initially put too much on because when I reinstalled them and started up the bike, it barely ran and died. Took them out, and pressed out more oil, reinstalled, and the bike started right up with a couple black plums of black smoke, most likely from a little bit of residual oil that got sucked out, that was in the airbox getting burned up during combustion. I'm wondering if that silicon reading might have been from the overall condition of the old air filters that were allowing a little bit of unfiltered air to seep past the filter seals. Either way, I'm glad I replaced the air filters.

 

[tc1446]

I've run a number of two wheelers with foam air filters which called for thorough moistening...never saturation. I think you might do well you lighten up on yours. FWIW, there are spray oils for air filters which are handy. K&N makes it and so does there brands.

 

[sunruh]

ive seen filters break down like that many many times
eventually the oil will eat the plastics of the filter
takes about a decade
ive even had one that looked fine...when you touched it was like very very thick mustard ... just total yellow goo