2000 Kawasaki ninja zx12r Motul 10w40 300V

[JPowell490]

Hey all,

Would love your feedback on this report. I bought this bike and it had 7998 miles on it. However, the guy changed the sprockets and it was reading high. So it actually had about 6k or less on it. I have no idea how long the old oil had been in it. I let it drain overnight and changed to the Motul with a Kawasaki OEM filter.

After the oil change, I tore down the whole bike and cleaned, replaced, etc. It was FILTHY. I ran seafoam in the oil on the ride home before the change to Motul.

I ran some Seafoam on top of the throttle bodies and the valves and let it set overnight, it seemed to help a lot. The bike was SUPER rich when I rode it home.

At any route, it looks brand new now and has a lot of new items on it. The K&N filters that were in the bike were filthy. I changed those to new BMC Street filters.

I changed exhaust gaskets on the headers, new plugs, etc. The engine was never apart.

What would cause the high copper etc? The engine runs fantastic now. No smoking or anything. Could the engine have not been broken in yet? These engines had a 2000 mile break in procedure that was extensive because of the lined cylinder walls.

Any more info needed, please let me know. Also, what do you think of the oil? It only had 1114 miles on the oil. I wanted to see if I could run it longer because people say it is a race only oil. TBN was good.

Thanks all,

 

[JPowell490]

Trying to edit the PDF to get my personal info out. If you can't see it let me know.

 

[justintendo]

deleted

 

[Bonz]

Lay some pieces of paper cut to size over your information. Take a good picture of it with your phone and then post it.

You didn't run the oil very long, and the bike sure doesn't have many miles on it overall.

It's already done, but I wouldn't put seafoam in the crankcase with even "moderate" RPM that bike may have turned on your ride home.

. You loosen up stuff and it clogs passageways and you've got an oil starvation problem as well as potentially thinning out your oil initially until the seafoam burns off and losing the boundary layer of protection on your bearings down low and on your cams and rockers/buckets in the head. The top end and lower end easily could contribute to the higher iron and copper numbers.

Look forward to the next analysis, see how those metals trend.

 

[JPowell490]

Thanks Bonz,

So nothing really to worry about? What about the low boron, etc.

Try this copy, it's in word.

 

[Bonz]

Boron is used as an additive in the oil, typically an anti-wear additive but also could provide some cleaning effect as well. Mostly anti wear I think, in a way like moly, where it plates the surfaces of higher pressure areas such as the rockers and cam lobes. Comparing virgin oil analysis to used oil analysis, it seems boron tends to diminish over an oil change, thus may have some sacrificial qualities to it in protecting.

My ZRX1200, in it's modified form (145 hp, 87 ft/lbs)still doesn't come close to matching your 12R, but below is the oil I choose.

I like Mobil 1 10w40 4T racing, it has a good dose of boron, and advertised now at 1300 PPM zinc and 1200 PPM phosphorus. I ran it for almost 5,000 miles in my ZRX, the first full oil change after installing high-compression pistons (ran Rotella T4 for the first 100 miles). Shift quality stayed perfect, the oil stayed in grade and TBN was 6.4 if I recall.

With that said I just sent in a sample of Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50. Wanted to see how that would fare over the same 5000 miles. It tends to thicken up in the Harleys, and I want to see if it does the same thing in a shared sump or if it stays in grade/drops slightly.

Based on putting the 10w40 back in, I think M1 Vtwin 20w50 is every bit a 50wt at the end of the OCI. The difference in eagerness of the engine to rev and overall crispness is much better with the 10w40.

Something I noticed a few years ago running Valvoline 20w50 conventional, the engine tends to run hotter. The fan comes on more frequently in stop-and-go traffic in really hot temps vs 10w40. Same thing happened with the M1 20w50 Vtwin, engine temps ran a bit warmer this summer vs last summer with 10w40 4T.

 

[JPowell490]

I am well versed in Harley oil issues. The reason it thickens or raises viscosity, is because of the extreme heat they put out. You don't have that issue with a liquid cooled machine.

I worry about using a Harley oil because of the extreme RPMs that happen on sport bikes. Appreciate the feedback and hope you could see it ok. I am thinking if going to Amsoil or Mobil. I will get this checked one more time since the original oil that was in the bike should be out by now. I think Motul is a great oil.

 

[KneeGrinder]

My eyes are not in great shape, even with my reading glasses on your picture is pretty blurry, I don't drink so it's not that...lol, I tried to increase the % up to 300% and I still can't see the Moly and Boron levels. But, I will say this, It does not matter what any of the analysis levels are, Fact is Motul 300 V of any viscosity is arguably one of the best shared sump inline four stroke motorcycle oils you can use. You don't have to use it in a race bike only, its Good stuff!

 

[shanneba]

You can get a PDF from Blackstone with your personal info removed.

If you create an account on their web site, when you search for a sample, there will be a check box under your name that says "export without personal data"

 

[JPowell490]

Thank you Shanneba,

Going to do that now. M

 

[JPowell490]

Here we go guys. Give this a shot and post your feedback.

 

[Bonz]

I wouldn't worry, Mobil 1 20w50 V-Twin is no different in suitability than syn or conventional Valvoline, synthetic Redline, syn or conventional Castrol or any other brand/type of 20w50 oil. They are all 100% suitable and will not hurt the livelihood of a higher RPM engine.

I choose the Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50 because it has very high zinc and phosphorus numbers. The ZRX 1200, especially when running higher lift ZZR 1200 cams, tends to be easier on the valve train with higher zinc and phosphorus. The cams have a known issue with pitting from poor metallurgy and I do believe more zinc and phosphorus can help abate that problem.

With that said the higher boron concentration in the Mobil 1 motorcycle oils I believe is a benefit to high pressure areas such as the valve train, and can be used to keep wear protection higher when zinc and phosphorus levels are lowered.

Interesting M1 has increased the zinc to 1300 PPM/phosphorus to 1200 PPM in the latest iteration of 10w40 4T racing oil.

4T racing had been 1750/1600 years ago (same as current Vtwin 20w50), dropped to 1200/1100 in the past couple years, and on their June 2019 spec sheet it is back up to 1300/1200.

Anyway unless something phenomenal shows in the analysis of 20w50 V-Twin, I'm going to go with 10w40 4T moving forward. The newly increased zinc and phosphorus only add to my comfort level. You can continue with the Motul and rest assured it's one of the best oils out there as well.

 

[JPowell490]

Nice,

I am going to submit another report after the same mileage and see how it turns out. I think the previous oil the original owner had in it might have mixed. No idea how old that was, but it was dirty.

 

[JPowell490]

Going to bump this as I am going to send another sample in. However, in the interim, can someone explain the theory that Ester oils cause high wear readings for a few changes and why that isn't bad?

 

[Bonz]

What I understand is high ester oils like Redline are good cleaning agents in and of themselves and are able to scavenge the "far reaches" of the engine so to speak and clean things up. Basically any built up wear metals show up in the oil. Which means the wear analysis with other types of oils probably shows lower because some of it gets left behind in the deposits any engine is going to have. At least that makes sense to me. But it's probably inconsequential in the grand scheme.

 

[sunruh]

JP
finally got to read the report after the info stripped and i could make it bigger than 4pt font

i've been hearing the whole ester "super cleans and thats why the report is bad" banter for 2 decades now.
but how come after many oci's with ester it doesnt ever improve?

you only had 1100mi on this oci. not much at all
high alum, iron, nickel, lead, silicon
bad air filter/air leak could cause all that

that copper and iron at just 1100mi could be looking at almost triple digits by 2500mi depending if it accelerates or not with used oil. or you have a sloppy bushing in the tranny thats letting the gearset move causing the added wear.

motul 300v is an awesome oil...i dont much like the 0w40 spread you used.
however, that 385 flash shows more fuel than just TR. my voa shows it should be 430 plus range
and my flash of 385 (430voa) on motul 10w50 showed 1.0% fuel so the stoners cant even keep their story straight.
and thats more than likely why your susvis shows 30wt

dont look at this fine oil.
look at what it is telling you that the rest of the motor has issues

steve

 

[Bonz]

Something else I have read is ester oil leeches lead out of the bearings and can cause high lead readings that way. Don't see that here though.

I think a ZX12R has an oil cooler, could be copper from that since it's a relatively low mile engine?

ZRX 1200 and ZZR 1200 cams from that same era had big issues with pitting because of poor casting. That can up the iron count in the oil. Is there any known issue with a ZX12R cams that has been noted by owners? Just thinking out loud on the iron.

 

[JPowell490]

Steve,

Appreciate your feedback. Actually it is 10w40 300v, they made a typo.

The engine runs like a dream, doesn't smoke, no noise, etc. I have the same oil in this time with about 1300 miles on it.

If not the Motul 300v, what do you suggest. This is a high reving, 200 hp engine that need a great oil. Do you recommend the Mobil 10w40 4t or something else?

Again thanks for the feedback. Let me know asap Steve so I can get this out of there if it isn't the right thing.

Bonz,

The only issues with cams I ever heard were when people removed them from the engine, If not loosened properly, they can break.

However, so will BMW engines on cams as well.

The oil cooler is very small and the oil filter screws on it. I don't think anything is coming from it.

 

[Bonz]

Yeah that is a beast of a motor, more than one land speed bike has been made from it and are still going strong.

I think you are simply getting stuff out of there on a low mileage almost 20 year old bike after that first change. I suspect this analysis should show better. At the first change the oil had plenty of TBN left, I would let that be my guide.

With respect, I have not found empirical data showing leaving this oil in for 3,000 or more miles is causing a problem. Motul does make a recommendation of shorter oil changes, but they never say a definitive statement of the empirical reasoning behind it. The base ester oil and additive package are not at question, top notch.

Here is a thread showing the oil for a longer oci, around 3,500 miles, and has a good TBN. Your TBN was high as well.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3481549/Motul_300V_10W40_double_ester,

I can highly recommend Mobil 1 10w 40 4T. Superb in my ZRX over a 5,000 mile oci. Otherwise 300v is going to serve you very well IMO.

Would be interested what Steve has to say about why the Motul 300V oil should be changed at a shorter interval given the analysis at the start of this thread. The wear metals are high, I think it's getting things re-acclimated inside the engine, but like I stated, TBN is looking good for a much longer oci.

 

[JPowell490]

Thanks for the info bonz,

I am sending the second sample tomorrow priority mail.

I think you are right on about the left over from sitting a long time. I was thinking if going with Amsoil or Mobil, but went with the 300v again arriving tomorrow.

The bike loves it and I will stick with it. I will post the second analysis when I get it.