1st Tesla Model 3 might be Produced Today!

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So they are going to build 30 cars this month, and 100 during august. Can you run a production line designed for 20,000 cars per month like that, or are these handcrafted?
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: bioburner
Didn't Tesla stock just take a huge dump?


Yup. People are starting to see through the smoke and mirrors. Cool cars, just the long term profitability is way sketchy. Once the states figure out how to tax EV's like they do gas cars you'll see the bottom drop out. Right now they get a "free lunch" in most places with no gas, road, etc taxes and special privileges. Not to mention the grid can't handle a mass transfer to electric cars.


No such tax breaks or free lunches here in Texas, yet I see quite a lot of Model S around. Not like it's every other car, but I usually see 4 or 5 of them a day.

I know in California hybrids and EV get free HOV lane usage and so forth. Here, you still have to have a carpool to use HOV lane and they have to pay for the toll roads too.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08

Yeah more products that take more carbon and rare Earth materials to manufacture and dispose of.


This is such a red herring. ICE cars use much of the same materials. Just something electric car naysayers can get their teeth into.
 
Originally Posted By: Brons2
I know in California hybrids and EV get free HOV lane usage and so forth. Here, you still have to have a carpool to use HOV lane and they have to pay for the toll roads too.


I'm not talking about that but the free lunch with charging. Every gallon of gas I buy there are taxes for the infrastructure (and here in PA the highest in the land) and whatnot built in. Electricity for charging has none of that as they can't figure out how to charge you. I know they are working on mileage based or other schemes for taxing EV's. That's a free lunch and really does nothing to show a true comparison.

Similar to how Tesla uses a convoluted argument on how it's cheaper than an ICE car.
 
Originally Posted By: Brons2
Originally Posted By: itguy08

Yeah more products that take more carbon and rare Earth materials to manufacture and dispose of.


This is such a red herring. ICE cars use much of the same materials. Just something electric car naysayers can get their teeth into.


Really? How much neodymium is in a Tesla's motors vs in my, say Taurus. Last I looked, aluminum is quite inert and plentiful. As is steel. But how much Lithium, etc is needed for batteries. And then how do we ensure that those metals are recycled into new stuff? I pretty much know my current vehicle may be part of a 60's or 80's beater.

It's not a herring, it's a serious question that many of the studies gloss over. And I wonder why that is?
 
States recover their lost gas tax revenues by imposing an extra registration fee on EV's.
The big picture varies across the country of course.

Whether the gas tax is really a "sin tax" like we tax cigarettes to get people to cut back,
or whether you think burning more Arab oil and creating more atmospheric carbon is good for the U.S.,
whichever side of the argument you're on, most of us here in the U.S. want to see the this country lead in EV tech & production.

An excellent NY Times article summarized nicely: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/11/business/energy-environment/electric-cars-hybrid-tax-credits.html
"When Georgia repealed its generous $5,000 tax credit on electric vehicles in July 2015, and instead slapped a $200 registration fee on electric cars, sales quickly tumbled."
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
States recover their lost gas tax revenues by imposing an extra registration fee on EV's.
The big picture varies across the country of course.


Of course it does vary. Some states are doing a mileage based fee, which, IMHO is the best way for all - pay for what you use.

Quote:
or whether you think burning more Arab oil and creating more atmospheric carbon is good for the U.S.,
whichever side of the argument you're on, most of us here in the U.S. want to see the this country lead in EV tech & production.


The atmospheric carbon nonsense argument again. :yawn:

We already have the World's Largest Oil Reserves so burning their oil is good for us.

Who is this most of us in the US you refer to? I'd bet most don't care one way or the other.
Quote:
"When Georgia repealed its generous $5,000 tax credit on electric vehicles in July 2015, and instead slapped a $200 registration fee on electric cars, sales quickly tumbled."


IOW: People don't care if it's an ICE or electric they want cheap transportation.
 
Originally Posted By: Brons2
Originally Posted By: itguy08

Yeah more products that take more carbon and rare Earth materials to manufacture and dispose of.


This is such a red herring. ICE cars use much of the same materials. Just something electric car naysayers can get their teeth into.


It is not. The path of destruction left by making an EV before it hits the road is 4 times what an ICE vehicle will make in its entire life.

The rare earth metals required to make those motors alone require an exaggerated amount of strip mining by acreage than the more common metals used to make an ICE vehicle. Once you get to the batteries, it really gets disgusting.

The reason why you will always see the environmental aspects of EV and hybrid cars specifically referenced by their tailpipe emissions is because it is a long forgone conclusion that the total creation of one of these vehicles is actually worse for the Earth than an ICE vehicle.

EV and hybrid is an environmental Ponzi scheme. The bulk of the environmental destruction occurs overseas, so it ends of being locally better for the environment. Americans keep checking their ecological statement from Bernard L. Madoff and think they're doing good. Bernie had a 30-year run, and this scheme could go even further.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
States recover their lost gas tax revenues by imposing an extra registration fee on EV's.
The big picture varies across the country of course.

Whether the gas tax is really a "sin tax" like we tax cigarettes to get people to cut back,
or whether you think burning more Arab oil and creating more atmospheric carbon is good for the U.S.,
whichever side of the argument you're on, most of us here in the U.S. want to see the this country lead in EV tech & production.

An excellent NY Times article summarized nicely: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/11/business/energy-environment/electric-cars-hybrid-tax-credits.html
"When Georgia repealed its generous $5,000 tax credit on electric vehicles in July 2015, and instead slapped a $200 registration fee on electric cars, sales quickly tumbled."


Exactly the kind of shallow argument that keep this nonsense alive and kicking......sort of.

Being the leader means little, when you're ultimately accomplishing nothing.
 
Originally Posted By: dareo
Model 3 makes a tempting offer. I cant say i wont consider getting one. As much as i love changing oil, cheap electric rwd and good style are all compelling.

My parents reserved one - but cancelled it in favor of a Lexus. The Model Y is tempting, I might put in a reservation when Tesla announces it. I'll still have an ICE car, for the city a Tesla is perfect and doesn't look as dorky as say, a Bolt/Fit/Leaf/Prius.
 
I get to drive and ride in a Tesla P85D with regularity. Went to lunch in it today, a 30 mile round trip from the airport. That car is a more fun than anything else around. And, no my 400+ RWHP S2000 is not faster, at any point. In fact, my super fun S2000 is a disheartening let down compared to the Tesla, especially when viewing it's taillights while struggling to not miss shifts or grind gears.

Those that say electric cars have no soul are 100% incorrect. These things (the better electric cars and motorcycles) are an absolute blast to drive, and you ABSOLUTELY know when they are making big power. 760HP is simply not silent in the Tesla, and 55HP is not silent on the 3.3 sec 0-60 Zero motorcycle. Different? Yes. Soulless? NOPE! In fact, I'd say the opposite, they are more fun due to the instant response and the complete lack of unnecessary drama. Allowing the driver to concentrate on driving.

World record Nurburgring electric car:
 
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