1998 Buick LeSabre Synthetic Oil Recomended?

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Addyguy, Thank you for the input. My 1998 had considerable leaks because the valve cover and oil pan gaskets beads had gone flat. Bushings still had plenty of compression, it was the gaskets themselves that were leaking. Fel-Pro perma dry gaskets and no leakage since.

Sciphi, I ended up with the Fel-Pro metal framed gaskets because they were readily available from my supplier.

As opposed to the GM gaskets, they appeared to be possibly steel that's zinc plated. I'd heard they were ok, too. Though most people say they'd prefer the GM LIM gaskets with the aluminum frames.

Thanks again for the input,

Larry S.

10*B
 
Originally Posted By: lght1
Hi

I would do a UOA asap if I suspected an internal leak and cared about the engine.

The best LIM gaskets are from the General..aluminum framed, and the best in my opinion. I would suggest getting UIM plenums from APN which have a steel liner for the egr chimney as well as a reduced diameter chimney itself.

Flush the system thoroughly with distilled water and use a silicated coolant. Remember, if it has silicates...it cannot be dex or a clone. Color of coolant means nothing.


I, too, went with the APN (Auto Parts Network) UIM with the steel sleeved EGR port or hole or whatever. Many say the Dorman kit is good for many years. I can't say which is better, but I liked the idea about the steel sleeve in the problem area.

LS
 
Originally Posted By: Dwane17
10bears,
Thanks for all the great info. I know it was a little off topic but helps out alot on a vehicle I don't have much background on.


Hi again, Dwayne. I agree totally with lgth1 that a UOA would be the more precise answer than my suggestion. You could know more in detail - and sooner.

I guess it's obvious I'm a newb in BITOG. The UOA is obviously a better answer IMO.

L
 
Hey, Boro.

Say, I just ordered that same trans oil cooler today.

Which is the trans cooler return line at the radiator? Upper or lower?

Thanks,

Larry S.

10*B
 
Great Larry! You should be happy with it.

I can't really remember offhand which one it is, but I'll snag a picture for you tomorrow.
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Originally Posted By: boro
Great Larry! You should be happy with it.

I can't really remember offhand which one it is, but I'll snag a picture for you tomorrow.
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Boro,

A picture would be much appreciated. Thank you very much!

Say, this being an oil thread and all... what trans fluid do you like? Or is it a non-issue once the temps are down due to the trans fluid cooler?

I saw in a transmission forum that these transaxles run hot from the OEM at 240's for temp due to the TCC (torque convertor clutch) always slipping in 2, 3 and 4th gears.

Supposedly, the General did this because of persistent problems with a "shudder" when trying to achieve total TCC lockup.

I've got to wonder how excellent the gas mileage could've been if they'd have figured out how to effect complete TCC lockup in 4th/OD!?!

Well, thank you once again for all the great info! Same goes to Sciphi and other excellent BITOG contributors!

Larry S.

10*B
 
Here's that pic as promised, I can't remember for the life of me how the fluid actually flows through here, but I do remember from my research at the time that this is how it is supposed to be set up.

DSC02746.jpg


As you can see, the cooler fits into the loop from the top radiator hose fitting.

Personally I really like Dexron VI, if I am doing the changes myself I will use the Castrol Dex VI available at just about any parts store and my car loves it. Dex III works fine too, but VI reportedly has better properties and lasts longer than III. I've had three start looking brown and burnt after only 10,000 miles...even with a cooler! VI seems to stay pink for longer for me. I still change it every 15-20k though.

The slipping is a very probable cause for the trans temps, though. Sometimes I can still feel a slight shudder on TC lockup under light throttle in both the 97 (60E) and the 09 (65E). I think I like the TC in the 60E more but it could simply be due to differences in engine power. I do feel that it is more of a complete lockup than the 65E but that is up for speculation. Either way they are both very smooth shifters that follow an almost identical shift pattern.
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Originally Posted By: boro
Here's that pic as promised, I can't remember for the life of me how the fluid actually flows through here, but I do remember from my research at the time that this is how it is supposed to be set up.

DSC02746.jpg


As you can see, the cooler fits into the loop from the top radiator hose fitting.

Personally I really like Dexron VI, if I am doing the changes myself I will use the Castrol Dex VI available at just about any parts store and my car loves it. Dex III works fine too, but VI reportedly has better properties and lasts longer than III. I've had three start looking brown and burnt after only 10,000 miles...even with a cooler! VI seems to stay pink for longer for me. I still change it every 15-20k though.

The slipping is a very probable cause for the trans temps, though. Sometimes I can still feel a slight shudder on TC lockup under light throttle in both the 97 (60E) and the 09 (65E). I think I like the TC in the 60E more but it could simply be due to differences in engine power. I do feel that it is more of a complete lockup than the 65E but that is up for speculation. Either way they are both very smooth shifters that follow an almost identical shift pattern.
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Boro,

Thank you very much for the excellent hi res picture! Very informative. Looks like a great way of doing it.

Where'd you find the nice U-bend and other fittings?

Also, your input on trans fluid and Dex 6 much appreciated.

I think I feel the same thing sometimes on the TCC lockup - whatever lockup actually is in this model transaxle.

There was almost zero debris in the trans pan, yet the fluid smelled slightly burnt. I think that all tracks with previous info.

I also think that means your suggestions on trans fluid OCI are a good idea - likewise, the cooler.

Once again, really appreciate all the info!

Larry S.

10*B
 
No problem Larry, good luck getting everything shifting smooth! If you want, add in a bottle of Lucas trans fix. If your car is already shifting nice it probably won't help, but it can help a ton if things are a little on the rough or sloppy side.

Either way, your car will love that Dex VI.

I got that u-fitting from a friend, originally I was just going to bend the rubber hose to the radiator fitting but he had a spare one of those that he let me use. I'll see if I can find out where he got it.

As for all the other fittings, I believe they were all included with the transmission cooler. I'll search back through some old posts and see if I can come up with something more clear, but I installed it almost two years ago and the memory that's up there in the brain bucket doesn't work too well!
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Originally Posted By: sciphi
Originally Posted By: 10bears
Originally Posted By: boro
Oh yes, it's on my car, in fact I have a couple of videos drifting around out there that demonstrate the downshift in action, it's quite enjoyable and surprising for a Buick LeSabre to go from 2500 rpms to 5000 in an instant.

In all honesty, you can do it to a stock car with no ill effects, but the more stuff you have protecting the transmission the better. A shift kit and an aftermarket cooler would help loads. If you don't feel comfortable doing that yourself, any transmission shop should be able to help you out, and neither are difficult or involved to install so labor charges wouldn't be too bad.

It certainly is not any kinder to the transmission, but as long as you don't do it all the time it won't have any negative effects. I've had the skip shift enabled for a couple of years now and my trans is still shifting along happily. 164k miles.

I dug up those videos. Here's the one from back when my LeSabre still had the Flowmaster, it shows the 3-1 downshift very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be1_Ec0FB6U

This one is after I went back to a stock muffler, I got tired of my LeSabre being loud very quickly! 4-2 downshift in this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgri0TN1MBY
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Boro,

Thank you very much for the video links. The speed sure jumps up there in a hurry!

Did you get the 3-1 downshift with the shift kit or did that require the PCM reprogramming?

Curious to know whose shift kit and trans cooler you used and if they seemed like good stuff to you. I figure I can probably install those without too much problem.

Just got the garage cleaned up and both cars in for the next two days rain/snow storm. The F150 looks like the runner up in a mudbog contest. There's been a lot of precip here in the past few weeks.

Larry S.

ASE Cert MM, retired


10bears, boro helped replace the LIM gaskets on my 1999 LeSabre this past fall. My LeSabre also has the computer reprogrammed to do the 3-1 downshift, and it's a blast to have the power there when I need it. Mine's been shift-kitted using $5 of parts from Lowe's. Most of the time the transmission (4T65 in my car, boro's has the 4T60) shifts so smoothly I forget it's kitted. All I notice is that it shifts faster.

For a transmission cooler I have a B&M 70268 mounted right behind the front bumper. It installed with the hardware in the kit in a couple hours.

To keep this thread sort of on topic, I use whatever 5w-30 synthetic is on sale at the moment. Next up is some Edge I got for almost free.


Hey Sciphi,

I just noticed that my trans is a 4T65 (2nd design with 8mm pan bolts). Do ya' have a DIY link for how you did your $5 Lowe's shift kit?

I don't know why I thought it was the 60; guess that transitioned in 1997..

It shifts perfectly like stock now, so there's no sense letting that go on.
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Thanks,

Larry S.

10*B
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Larry, here is the link to the topic (with pictures) about the DIY shift kit. I have this exact kit in my car, and it works perfectly. I got steel spacers at Lowe's in the fasteners section that were precut to match the dimensions needed.

http://pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11731&hilit=shift&start=20


Sciphi,

Thank you very much for the link! My car is one of the years that supposedly has a lot of the PCS "long adapt" problems that can cause violent shifting, yet it isn't acting up... YET! That was supported by a super clean pan with no debris. But then, the preceding is kinda' like saying: "Hey MURPHY, here I am!"

I'm going to keep this link safe and sound in case my transaxle starts with the PCS nonsense. Or, maybe just do it before any problems as a cool low buck shift kit!

I liked your suggestion in the same linked page for coolant line flush. I'll do that when I have the pan down next time... probably when I do the $5 shift kit!

Kind regards,

Larry S.

10*B
 
My transmission was starting to act up, so I did the kit. It made a lot of difference. I still may replace the PCS anyhow, but I have other projects on that car before that sleeping dog gets awakened.

I'm not the original poster for that thread, but I did contribute to it.
 
Switched to the Pennz Platinum 5w30 2 days ago. Last OCI of Valvoline 10w30 dino oil - used 1/4 of a quart in 600 miles. Probably due to old pcv valve being horrifically plugged.

Since I "vacuumed" the pan out, spec'd 4.5 quarts of PP 5w30 puts it about 5/8 up into the running range on the dipstick.

I'll track Pennz usage and post again if anything unusual.

Oil pressure, etc seems similar. Cold start noises seem to go away quicker; could be placebo effect.

Thanks again to various BITOG members who gave opinions! If it turns out to be an oil guzzler, I'll switch to a HM oil.

Various gasket replacements seem to have cured leaks.

Trans cooler and spin on filter installed. First filter really took out a lot of fine stuff. Odd, since pan was clean and trans shifts perfectly. Just more garbage in the first spin on than I expected...

L
 
I've run the first OCI of Pennz Platinum 5w30 for 5000 miles. Overall, I like it.
thumbsup2.gif


I changed it out today. No makeup oil was necessary and it used about 1/2 quart in 5000 miles. I consider that to be excellent for an old used car. So I think my gasket work stopped it from being a slopper.

Much of these miles were highway miles on a trip from Colorado to Pennsylvania and back.

Seemed like quite a bit of rattle on startup after the car would sit for a few days. Like maybe 1/4 or 1/2 second. This sound is different than what it sounds like when bleeding air out after oil and filter change.

I suspect the hydraulic roller lifters are making that sound after they bleed down for a few days.

Anyway, the oil on the dipstick did not really look all that dark, but I wanted to change it figuring the first OCI of synth might take out quite a bit of garbage.

In the drain bucket, it looked pretty black, so it was probably time. Yeah, color is no indicator per se. But this engine has some sludge in it when I had it open so I think 5k on the first Pennz Plat is enough.

As before, I used the shop vac "super sucker" and a copper tubing J hook to take out the last 1/2 quart that hides in the pan on this car.

While I had the shop vac sloppy, I also did a turkey baster flush on the power steering pump 2 times with Redline synth PSF.

Switching from a Napa Gold Wix filter to a Purolator Pure One filter this time to see if the cold startup rattle after days of sitting is less. Used the longer filter for Blazers once again, but Purolator this time.

So, thanks to those who recommended the Pennz Platinum! The car is running great and gettin' great gas mileage! I think the Pennz is probably cleaning things out.

No coolant usage since the UIM/LIM refit, so good there, too.

10*B
 
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