1997 Plymouth Neon 86K Supertech 10W30 2008 Miles 4 Months

[TomJones76]

Here we go, folks!
This is my wife's 1997 Plymouth Neon. It has the base 2.0L I4 engine, not the spiffy DOHC one.
She drives it shopping and occasionally to her part-time classes at the local community college (20 miles, mostly highway). It gets occasional 47 mile trips to mom's house.
I'm rather impressed with the results, although it's hard to wear out oil in 2K intervals.
She got the oil in a bulk fill at a local Wal-Mart.
The additive package reminds me of the UOA of Supertech 10W30 here: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002075#000000 , except that UOA is nearly 2 yeard old now. Note that that UOA lacks moly, which my sample has 234 PPM.
Seems like an old-school kinda' add pack with the 2117 calcium, but you can't argue with success.

code:

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Date 5/23/2006

Lab Schaeffers

***Vehicle ID***

Make Plymouth

Model Neon

Year 1997

Engine 2.0L OHC I4

Miles on Vehicle 85954

***Oil Identification***

Oil Brand Supertech

Oil Series Conventional

Oil SAE J300 10W30

API SX NR

Miles on Oil 2004

Months In Service 4

***Elements***

Antimony Sb NR

Cadmium Cd NR

Vanadium V NR

Aluminum Al 4

Chromium Cr 0

Iron Fe 8

Copper Cu 3

Lead Pb 1

Tin Sn NR

Molybdenum Mo 234

Nickel NR

Manganese Mn NR

Silver Ag NR

Titanium Ti NR

Potassium K NR

Boron B NR

Silicon Si 5

Sodium Na NR

Calcium Ca 2117

Magnesium Mg 13

Phosporus P 794

Zinc Zn 885

Barium Ba NR

***Viscosity***

cST @ 100 C 9.98

SUS @ 210 F NR

***Misc***

Flashpoint NR

Fuel % N

Antifreeze % 0

Water % 0

Insolubles % TR

Sulfur 8

Oxidation 0

Nitration 8

TBN NR

Ferrous Debris NR

Fuel Soot % NR

Glycol NR

ISO Code NR

Additives NR

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[Brian Miller_dup1]

Thanks for the report!

What's up with the moly? I thought that SuperTech didn't have moly in it. This must be thw WPP stuff, since there is no Na?

Is this a trend... is WalMart buying the oil from whoever can make it the cheapest and having Warran bottle it up?

I've got to go and put my foil hat on now, so they can't watch what I'm doing...

Back to the padded room

Brian

 

[The Critic]

8 ppm of Iron in only 2000 miles isn't outstanding, at least in my book.

HondaMan installed Supertech 10w-30 into his 2002 Protege for a 5K run nearly 6 months ago. It was the SM/GF-4 version; he checked the 5-quart jug to verify the rating before installation.

Here's the UOA:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003411

My guess is that you may've gotten an accidental fill of their "name brand" bulk oil, which is Pennzoil or Quaker State 10w-30. Walmart has their "in-house" Supertech special, and also has a "name-brand" bulk (usually Pennzoil or Quaker State) service offering as well.

A somewhat recent Pennzoil UOA yielded nearly 200 ppm of Mo:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003115

What oil was in use prior to this fill? If it was Havoline, it may very well have been leftover Mo.

Btw, can I safely assume that the oil filter was the "Orange Can?"

[ June 02, 2006, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: The Critic ]

 

[TomJones76]

Critic:

As far as the 8 PPM of iron, well, I'm used to Ford 3.0L Duratecs... 8 PPM is just about their MINIMUM iron.
I have not found a comparable UOA for the lame Chrysler 2.0L from '97ish. I have found a UOA for the nice one.
The wife just said that the last THREE times she had her oil changed at Wally World.
One of those times she accidentally let them "sell her up" to bulk name-brand something else.
I think the something else was Pennzoil, and it MAY have been the OCI before.
Still, though, 200 ppm of Mo mixed with 0 ppm of Mo won't turn out 234 ppm of Mo.
And Havoline is NOT carried in Wal-Marts in Northeast Ohio, so that didn't make its way in. I can't find Havoline at major chains here to save my life.
The filter was a fram. I did her most recent change in my driveway, and put in... well, to be honest, an oil cocktail with 2 qts of Supertech 5W30 SL, some Exxon 5W20 SL, a qt of Mobil Drive Clean 5W30, and some Pennzoil 5W20 SL.

 

[Ray H]

Omigosh - the sky's falling! Hey, whatever was in that Neon's engine sump did fine. 8 ppm iron in one UOA isn't anything to obsess over - may've even been a lab error. What you want to do is check how iron trends in subsequent UOAs.

 

[TomJones76]

Yeah. I think the 3MP tests of sample-to-sample variability showed something like 3 PPM of sensitivity on particle counts, so a grain of salt is needed.

 

[ekpolk]

A nice, economical-to-run engine in outatanding health. Sleep well, confident that your engine isn't secretly planning to destroy itself sometime in the near future, and that your oil choice is a good one. If you really wanted to work it, you could probably game some of these numbers down some, but OTOH, you certainly don't need to. I'd leave this oil in service for at least six months (looks like you're time vs. mile limited on this car).

I'd bet my next paycheck that this car is costing you less per mile than 90% or more of the other rolling stock on the roads today.

 

[TomJones76]

Heh. If you go on an annual basis, you're right for sure.
My wife only drives this thing 6K per year, so it's amazing how cheap it is for us to keep it going. Aside from a new spark plug last summer and an AC leak it developed (what 9 year old car doesn't have leaky seals SOMEWHERE?), no problems I can recall in this car that weren't caused by user error or some idiot running into it.

 

[bulwnkl]

I'm interested to see what my '00 Neon turns in now that its driving pattern is so different from what it was. My '00 has the same SOHC engine as your '97, so they're totally comparable. I got some nice, pretty similar numbers out of an 8,000+ mile Red Line 10W30 UOA last year, but that was with a primarily highway miles mixture. Check it out and see how they compare.

 

[Gary Allan]

Critic: You've also got to index this over a tri-annual OCI. This was 4 months/2k miles ..not 2m/2k. Lots more miles/cycle, pal.

I think that it's a great UOA ..probably good out to 6 months. You can't get much better then that for el cheapo

 

[UncleS2]

Gary, glad to hear your son's 96 is holding up. For Neon info online, try neons dot org.

Yes, the AC compressor seems ill-matched to the little 4-cyls. You can defintely tell when it's on- a real drag on power!

120K? Chrysler recommended t-belt replacement at 105K. Has the timing belt ever been replaced? If so, great. If not, he's on borrowed time now- and these are interference engines.

While you're at it, be sure to replace the t-belt driven water pump & idler pulley bearings too. Removing the crankshaft pulley can be a bear without a suitable insert. Lots more details at dot org.

The little engines are pretty doggone rugged, & seem to do quite well with just about any 5w30 or 10w30 oil. Avoid platinum spark plugs, they like the stock copper Champion RC9YC plugs- NGK V-Power FR-5's are great too.

And BTW: when first introduced, those little econoboxes in "ACR" trim(think better struts, shorter top gear, quicker steering ratio- that's about it) won so many races in their class(SCCA showroom stock sport sedan 2.0 L- or something like that) that the rules were changed!

 

[TomJones76]

quote:

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SNIP

And TJ76- you & the mrs. need to show that car some highway! 1997, & less than 90K miles?! Mine's over 192K miles now & counting!

[/QB]

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The wife's neon has the 3-speed auto. I'm amazed how fast the car is despite the 3-speed, and how good the mileage stays.
As far as showing it miles... the wife's been out of work for... nearly three years now, so until recently most of the miles were shopping and occasional trips to her mom.
She's actually going to be at the college 4-5 days per week this semester, so we'll rack up a few more.

 

[TomJones76]

bulwnkl,

I saw your UOAs, but I never realized you actually had this engine in SOHC form. Most BITOGERs have a habit of optioning up to the "quick" engine. You probably said it somewhere, I just wasn't paying attention.

In case anyone's curious, here's a blotter test from the dipstick taken five minutes before I changed the oil out.

From my flickr account:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/83373045@N00/162429549/

You'll notice a big white spot near the top middle I suspect that's an imperfection in the index card. These cards aren't kept in a sterile environment as I let them settle out overnight before scanning [1], but there are too many black specs in the middle of the card to all be dust.
Every time I do a blotter on this car I get at least one black speck. I just wonder if that's metal or burnt carbon, or "other".
I suspect I may get better results if I use a spoon to pull a drop from the 12 fl oz of this oil remaining after I pulled a sample for Schaeffer's. I always keep a reserve stash, in case I get wonky results and decide on more tests, or the man in the white truck that my dogs don't trust decides to lose the sample.

[1] Actually, they're on the bottom of the freezer in an unplugged refrigerator in my basement with the freezer door open, near my oil stash. Heh, if my oil was a few inches lower, I'd be keeping it where most guys keep the beer.

[ June 07, 2006, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: TomJones76 ]

 

[UncleS2]

TJ, Neons are the Rodney Dangerfield of cars, they get no respect!

My opinions:
1. For those conditions, I think that report looks very good.
2. I've never seen anything to suggest that the Neon SOHC engines show any more wear than the DOHC engines. If anything, I'd expect a DOHC driven hard, that willingly revs to its 7250 rpn rev limiter, to show more wear than an equally hard driven SOHC, with its 6250 rpm rev limiter. And as far as power- normally the DOHC really only shows any advantage above 5K rpm, & some would put that much closer to 6K.

You don't say whether it has the ATx or the 5-sp MTx. FWIW, the DOHC/ATx combination is a very poor second to the SOHC/ATx. Repeat, with an automatic, the SOHC is the way to go. For the rev-happy among us, the DOHC/MTx combo is the most fun of all- that's what my '97 Neon has. The SOHC MTx's are lots of fun too, and with both 2nd gear is a real hoot! SOHC MTx is geared higher than the DOHC MTx, and should be the overall gas mileage champ of all the 95-99 Neons.

And TJ76- you & the mrs. need to show that car some highway! 1997, & less than 90K miles?! Mine's over 192K miles now & counting!

 

[Gary Allan]

Interesting, Stuart. My son has a 96 SOHC/AT beater for commuting. He's at about 120k+/-. Neat little econo box. AC really saps the hp on hills he reports ..reduces the mpg a bit to on his 40 mile suburban trip. It's at a disadvantage in our "rolling hill" Penn topography 'scape.

 

[Gary Allan]

TJ. That blotter looks fine. Any random crap is just that, imo. You would see the "ring" of crap forming. You don't have any.

I fretted over some oddities in my blotter tests. That was until I figured out that you can't be too critical when backlighting them. The paper itself is a collage of textures/densities that screw with your vision.

Stuart - I dunno if the t-belt has been done on his ride. I'll ask him next time I see him. He doesn't need that expense at any time. His alternative ride is his 2000 Jeep Cherokee. He's lucky if he can get 18 (probably less) on his commute ..or about half of what he gets with the Neon.

 

[TomJones76]

In case anyone feels like looking at the actual Schaeffer's print-out, here's a link:

http://static.flickr.com/69/168507415_7ac3db49c0_b.jpg

(Name and addy censored.)