1970 Mach 1 oil?

Messages
371
Location
Texas
Hi all, haven't been on here in a while, good to be back. Ok I need the advice of you collector car guys out there. This weekend I am picking up my dream car, a fully restored 1970 Mustang Mach 1 with the 351 4v Cleveland engine (original) and FMX automatic transmission. I need some insight on what. the old car crowd is running in these old flat tappet engines. This one has been all rebuilt to original specs with all Ford parts. It's the original 11:1 compression and runs terrific. I've always been the Mobil 1 guy and am thinking of running 10W30 or 10W40 high mileage oil in it. thoughts or input from experience? I appreciate all replies and apologies for the long post!
 
Messages
6,773
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
I'd run the Delvac 15/40 if you want to keep it Mobil. Flat tappet engines love HDEO. You're not going to want to do any long intervals in that car anyway. Worked on quite a few classic Mustangs in my time. Oil always came out reeking of gas. Stick to 3000 miles there.
 
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16,995
Location
...
I hope you will post pictures of this great classic. I’ll let the old experts here talk about the oil.
 
Messages
3,646
Location
Worst Case, Ontario
VR1 20W50 or M1 5W50 If I had an old car in Texas I would choose a thick oil. I think you might have to add some sort of additive to a modern oil like the M1 5W50 for the flat tappets. VR1 appears to be made for old school hot rods so I would run that with confidence.
 

SAJEFFC

Thread starter
Messages
371
Location
Texas
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I hope you will post pictures of this great classic. I’ll let the old experts here talk about the oil.
I will definitely post pics when I get it. Thanks for all the replies, keep em coming. This car will just a pleasure toy for pretty day weekend driving. I'm just not sure about the 20W50 as it will "rarely" get driven hard :-)
 
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6,235
Location
Kalifornia Kollective
So I'd be looking at a semi-viscous oil with more than 1,000 PPM of ZDDP. Believe it or not, Tractor Supply Mystic HDEO 15W-40 is a good choice. That is 40 at op temp ... If that is a bit heavy for you, I highly recommend Chevron Delo 400 15W-30 SD (severe duty) which is every bit as stout, but is a nice 30 at op temp. It all depends on the rod and main clearances when they set up the motor ... Can you get that info? PQIA is your friend here. You want to look at HDEO's and other commercial fluids and see where their Zinc and Phosphorous levels are. Among the Bow Tie crowd of heavy hitters at Chevelles.com, I ran a survey to see what they used. Valvoline VR-1 won 2:1 over the next nearest rival. http://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/831521-what-oil-do-you-use.html That engine does not beat oil too bad. It has critical spots like the cam bearings, but if they were installed right, you are good. If the cam and lifters are OEM pieces, the spring pressures are not over the top outrageous, so it'll live with any good robust oil. Foaming is an issue if sustained high RPM use... Did they install a windage tray?
 
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SAJEFFC

Thread starter
Messages
371
Location
Texas
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
So I'd be looking at a semi-viscous oil with more than 1,000 PPM of ZDDP. Believe it or not, Tractor Supply Mystic HDEO 15W-40 is a good choice. That is 40 at op temp ... If that is a bit heavy for you, I highly recommend Chevron Delo 400 15W-30 SD (severe duty) which is every bit as stout, but is a nice 30 at op temp. It all depends on the rod and main clearances when they set up the motor ... Can you get that info? PQIA is your friend here. You want to look at HDEO's and other commercial fluids and see where their Zinc and Phosphorous levels are. Among the Bow Tie crowd of heavy hitters at Chevelles.com, I ran a survey to see what they used. Valvoline VR-1 won 2:1 over the next nearest rival. http://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/831521-what-oil-do-you-use.html That engine does not beat oil too bad. It has critical spots like the cam bearings, but if they were installed right, you are good. If the cam and lifters are OEM pieces, the spring pressures are not over the top outrageous, so it'll live with any good robust oil. Foaming is an issue if sustained high RPM use... Did they install a windage tray?
Brocluno thank you, thats great info. I believe the engine was just freshened up to stock specs with Ford bearings etc, no windage tray as far as I can determine. I guess my main concern was the zinc content etc due to all the horror stories you hear about modern oils hurting these old motors. I have a new '17 super duty diesel as well and thought about a HDEO diesel oil as well. The Mustang definitely has no converters or emission controls to worry about!
 
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13,194
Location
Maricopa Arizona
The original recommendation was likely API SC/SD 10w30 or 20W20 which has ZDDP levels equivalent or less then modern SN PCMO's. I would not worry just change it at a reasonable level.
 
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862
Location
Indy
I know I'm new here but I feel like I should contribute to this post due to experience. A few years ago I had a Thunderbird bracket car (sportsman drag racing) with a fairly mild, by my standards, 351 Cleveland. Engine was swapped in, not original to the car. Engine had 2 barrel heads, no porting, Holley Street Dominator intake, Holley 750 vacuum secondary carb, pretty mild cam, and went through a C4 and 3.91 gears and slicks. I also had 125HP worth of nitrous on the car for fun. The car was street driven on the weekends and when the sun was out. I was never nice to it. Beat on it like it owed me money. It received a steady diet of Valvoline VR-1 10w-30 the whole time I owned it. Compression and leak down numbers were great the couple times I did a health check on the engine. I tell you this to illustrate the fact that in my opinion it is not viscosity that provides oil film strength so much as the right additives in the chosen oil. I have never run anything thicker than 30 weight oil in any of my drag cars or street cars. I choose to use a lower viscosity to preserve horsepower. I just don't see a 50 weight oil to be necessary for an engine of modest horsepower. I do live in Indiana, so may not have as many days over 90 degrees as you do, but I think ambient temp may be less relevant than the application and use/abuse of the engine. My recommendation would be 10w-30 in VR-1 variety, Brad Penn or Amsoil Z-Rod or Signature Series. Amsoil Dominator is an honorable mention though it isn't as suited towards street use with it's lower level of corrosion inhibitors. I hope my rambling has helped and not complicated matters. Enjoy the Mustang and that nearly indestructible Cleveland!
 
Messages
17,501
Location
Clovis, CA
I had the same engine and transmission in my 1970 Cougar XR7. The only way to keep the engine from pinging on 92 pump gas was to use heavy stiff advance springs on the distributor and then also set the initial timing back to 0* BTDC. That 11:1 compression was intended for 108 octane full lead ethyl.
 
Messages
1,311
Location
Alaska
Maxlife Heavy duty diesel 15w40 has over 1000ppm of zinc, and high mileage additives for those older seals. That's what I would run if I didn't use my stash of 45 year old oil in my classics.
 
Messages
13,019
Location
Indiana
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
VR1 20w50 or Edge 5w50 (if you can find it.)
Also, I believe they make a VR1 10w30. Get some 10w30 and 20w50 and do some mixing if you're unsure of the xxw50.
 

dnewton3

Staff member
Messages
8,476
Location
Indianapolis, IN
To be honest we need to know more about the engine rebuild. I'm a bit cautious here. - If the engine was rebuilt as he says, then we need clarification as to the use (re-use?) of OEM Ford parts. Was the OEM cam reinstalled? Distributor? Tappets? Were the valve seats milled out and hardened seats installed? What clearances were set up? - If the OEM cam were re-installed, then the cam/tappets have already gone through a break-in, and presumably the re-builder did a good job of installing all the tappets back in the same bore from whence they came; greatly reduces a second "break-in" concern. - If a "new" cam was installed, (made to OEM specs, but a new piece of metal meaning truly "new") with "new" lifters (again - truly "new"), then break-in is a concern. - Was there a clean-up hone done? Was it bored over? New rings and pistons? Re-used the old ones? NOS? The OP may not know the answers. If that is the case, it'd be prudent to err on the side of caution. Treat it with a "brand-new break-in" mentality. Going over-board here is the cautious approach, but won't "hurt" anything if he's wrong. Being flat-tappet, I'd lean towards an additive for cam/tappets during the first relatively short OCI, to break the engine in. Once that is done, we'll presume the engine is built well enough to handle today's fuels and lubes. Then "normal" OCIs with "normal" lubes can take place. In which case any decent 10w-30 should do well. Or - any chance you can contact the rebuilder directly? That person may have specifics and recommendations.
 
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Messages
10,631
Location
Jupiter, Florida
I'd use M1, 15W-50, year round in TX. Plenty of ZDDP for cam protection, and it's a robust oil without being stupidly viscous in cooler weather.
 
Messages
1,869
Location
Texas
Originally Posted By: SAJEFFC
Hi all, haven't been on here in a while, good to be back. Ok I need the advice of you collector car guys out there. This weekend I am picking up my dream car, a fully restored 1970 Mustang Mach 1 with the 351 4v Cleveland engine (original) and FMX automatic transmission. I need some insight on what. the old car crowd is running in these old flat tappet engines. This one has been all rebuilt to original specs with all Ford parts. It's the original 11:1 compression and runs terrific. I've always been the Mobil 1 guy and am thinking of running 10W30 or 10W40 high mileage oil in it. thoughts or input from experience? I appreciate all replies and apologies for the long post!
I would use a 10-30 or 40. No need for 50 wt. Any namebrand oil today is much better than what was in that engine in 1970.
 
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