1819

salesrep

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"The men of 1819 realized that a "free market" in order to work must be just that — free. They had in them what we completely lack: a trust in the American people to manage their own affairs. A trust in "free markets" is, at base, a trust in the people."
 
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 Originally Posted By: salesrep
"The men of 1819 realized that a "free market" in order to work must be just that — free. They had in them what we completely lack: a trust in the American people to manage their own affairs. A trust in "free markets" is, at base, a trust in the people."
"The American People" includes the people running the financial markets. A good share of them have demonstrated that they aren't to be trusted.
 
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Unlike 1819, the politicians aren't ruining the free market as the unions control them in the background. It's a recipe for disaster, as we've seen. There's no free-market to what has happened to GM this past year. Too much artificial interference from those unions.
 
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 Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
Unlike 1819, the politicians aren't ruining the free market as the unions control them in the background. It's a recipe for disaster, as we've seen. There's no free-market to what has happened to GM this past year. Too much artificial interference from those unions.
Yeah, they sure showed AIG (and the rest) who was boss! I'm
 
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Any so called "free market" includes feedback/correction mechanisms (essentially, the ability of the populace to retaliate against those who are taking advantage them). This leads to a rising cycle of violence, which turns into an anarchic society which is inhospitable to civilized life or business. Think drug-cartel dominated societies. With the populist outrage over the complete dominance and looting of the financial system by the upper class, we have the potential to go there ourselves. The fireblock against that progression is of course a government maintaining a stable, fair business and social environment. But many people apparently don't see that as their "free market", or even desirable....
 
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 Quote:
With the populist outrage over the complete dominance and looting of the financial system by the upper class, we have the potential to go there ourselves.
I can only hope that this fear factor would instill sensible governess of the financial sector. I expect that it would not do so ..but merely construct better gated communities and a more enabled police state.
 

Kestas

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Good read - some profound statements in there: "Should we solve [the 1819 crisis] — and I have no doubt that we will — then we can write down our own warnings, born of harsh experience, so that generations not yet born may completely ignore them too." "From CNBC's cute little money honeys to newspaper op-eds to my coworkers on the trade desk, all cry that the government must do something. Many of the elite from 1819 believed the exact opposite — that government must do nothing." "Compared to now however, the state and federal politicians did basically nothing to "help" the economy recover from the Panic of 1819, yet by 1821 the economy had begun to get back on its feet, which must seem a stunning outcome to anyone burdened with a degree in economics." "... the best plan of action is no plan at all."
 
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 Originally Posted By: XS650
 Originally Posted By: salesrep
"The men of 1819 realized that a "free market" in order to work must be just that — free. They had in them what we completely lack: a trust in the American people to manage their own affairs. A trust in "free markets" is, at base, a trust in the people."
"The American People" includes the people running the financial markets. A good share of them have demonstrated that they aren't to be trusted.
In that same "American People" are the politicians and central bankers that caused this problem and are now claiming they have the solutions. Are politicans and bankers better than those running finacial markets? What is going on now is the largest fraud in global history in order to empower governments and the central bankers.
 
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 Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
Too much artificial interference from those unions.
That's a paradox. Workers organizing of their own free will and negotiating as "we" *is* a natural part of any market; as much so as the purchasing decisions of the collective known as "consumers". Artificial interference comes from authority. Government has endowed itself with authority.
 
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 Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
which turns into an anarchic society which is inhospitable to civilized life or business.
OH, COME ON. You don't have a flippin' CLUE what anarchy is, do you? Lemme guess: It's horned, fanged insaniacs throwing bombs at babies and laying in carnal congress with goat-devils? Sorry, fellas, it's just that people talk about individual responsibility and natural balance in a market, not knowing that that *is* the very definition of anarchy: a total absence of coercive authority. Free will. Libertariansm. Personal accountability. Common sense. Direct democracy. Self governance. *Most of you here have very, very, very strong Libertarian/ Anarchic leanings!!!* I honestly hope I don't get this thread locked due my defense of the "A" word; but it just burns my butt when people misuse the word, which is kinda insulting to some good people. Use "chaotic" instead, please.
 
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 Originally Posted By: Tempest
What is going on now is the largest fraud in global history in order to empower governments and the central bankers.
See?! *Libertarian/ Anarchic leaning!!!* Man, I could quote you guys for *days*; from both the right and the left.
 
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Well, we didn't have a clue about your anarchic puritanism, but now we will make a note of it and use a more descriptive world for chaos and non-democratic authoritarianism. However, it appears that supporters of the pure anarchy you describe are also without a clue, in their own idealistic way.
 
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 Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
 Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
Too much artificial interference from those unions.
That's a paradox. Workers organizing of their own free will and negotiating as "we" *is* a natural part of any market; as much so as the purchasing decisions of the collective known as "consumers". Artificial interference comes from authority. Government has endowed itself with authority.
...because of the unions throwing their support unilaterally behind a single party in this case.
 
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 Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
 Originally Posted By: Tempest
What is going on now is the largest fraud in global history in order to empower governments and the central bankers.
See?! *Libertarian/ Anarchic leaning!!!* Man, I could quote you guys for *days*; from both the right and the left.
What do you call an international governing body for financial institutions that answer to central banks, the IMF being able to print it's own money, government wanting to be able to seize private corporations, and there is other stuff I can't really get into due to board rules. I'm about as anti-conspiracy theory as you can get, but this is all being done in the open.
 
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 Originally Posted By: Tempest
What do you call an international governing body for financial institutions that answer to central banks, the IMF being able to print it's own money, government wanting to be able to seize private corporations, and there is other stuff I can't really get into due to board rules.
Bad guys doing bad things?
 Originally Posted By: Tempest
I'm about as anti-conspiracy theory as you can get, but this is all being done in the open.
What did that have to do with me quoting you and pointing out that that one phrase indicated strong Libertarian/ Anarchist ideology?
 
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