134A Refrigerant Source

[KrisZ]

I'm not spending an hour on Google to find facts you can look up yourself. Why do you think propane tanks are prohibited from most tunnels? I already showed a link where EPA prohibits propane as as refrigerant, "HC refrigerants, such as propane, are highly flammable and are not acceptable alternatives for MVACs under the Clean Air Act and the EPA’s Significant New Alternatives Policy (SNAP) Program."

You don’t need to spend hours googling anything because on the very same EPA website you linked it clearly states that r1234yf is also flammable, yet they approved it for automotive use. So they condemn one product because it is flammable, but in the same sentence say the other flammable product is ok to use. Hmm, I’m curious why would that be?

Which makes me curious why you left out r1234yf from your above quote.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I thought you couldnt get r134a in canada. Might have to cross to the usa to get some.

I missed this post. It looks like you are right. Also I checked with Walmart and Napa in the States and they sell it. I might have to cross over as well.

 

[Skippy722]

You don’t need to spend hours googling anything because on the very same EPA website you linked it clearly states that r1234yf is also flammable, yet they approved it for automotive use. So they condemn one product because it is flammable, but in the same sentence say the other flammable product is ok to use. Hmm, I’m curious why would that be?

Which makes me curious why you left out r1234yf from your above quote.

Don’t forget R-600, aka isobutane, is flammable and also gaining widespread use. R-290, propane, is already used pretty extensively in the restaurant industry.

Edit - I understand we’re talking about current automotive uses, but it would not surprise me one bit if they eventually transition to using these in vehicles officially.

 

[atikovi]

You don’t need to spend hours googling anything because on the very same EPA website you linked it clearly states that r1234yf is also flammable, yet they approved it for automotive use. So they condemn one product because it is flammable, but in the same sentence say the other flammable product is ok to use. Hmm, I’m curious why would that be?

Which makes me curious why you left out r1234yf from your above quote.

Are you being deliberately obtuse or can't you comprehend that the level of flammability between the two is widely different or that additional safety measures are built into R1234 system?

 

[KrisZ]

What’s obtuse about pointing out the hypocrisy of an agency which you use as proof of your reasoning?

To me, flammable is flammable, neither r12 or r134a are flammable. Why approve something flammable when the whole reasoning is safety and r134a is considered not ozone depleting and is non-flammable?

In fact r1234yf also releases poisonous gases when it burns. Daimler was so concerned about it that they are using CO2 in some of their models and resorted to implementing fire extinguishing measures for the ones equipped with r1234yf. Do other manufacturers implement them as well? I’m not sure, I have not examined a car with the new refrigerant.

For the record, I do understand that using the propane mixes instead of r134a introduces additional fire hazard, there is no question about it.

 

[atikovi]

It's the government. Do you expect any less?

 

[KrisZ]

It's the government. Do you expect any less?

Now, that’s something we can agree on. They set the bar pretty low.

 

[dubber09]

Advance Auto in WA wouldn't sell me R134a either asking for license.

 

[racin4ds]

Wow, here in FL I buy pure R134A all day for $8 a 12oz can... you poor Canooks, I feel sorry for ya!

 

[scrowley]

Look up a side tapper and A can or 2 of duster spray. R152-A

 

[benjamming]

So, where can you buy pure R134a without a license in the States which doesn't have leak detection or stop leak or does nobody care about that like folks do (myself included) about stop leak in a can for tires?

 

[Skippy722]

What’s obtuse about pointing out the hypocrisy of an agency which you use as proof of your reasoning?

To me, flammable is flammable, neither r12 or r134a are flammable. Why approve something flammable when the whole reasoning is safety and r134a is considered not ozone depleting and is non-flammable?

In fact r1234yf also releases poisonous gases when it burns. Daimler was so concerned about it that they are using CO2 in some of their models and resorted to implementing fire extinguishing measures for the ones equipped with r1234yf. Do other manufacturers implement them as well? I’m not sure, I have not examined a car with the new refrigerant.

For the record, I do understand that using the propane mixes instead of r134a introduces additional fire hazard, there is no question about it.

While r134a isn’t flammable, it will decompose into hydrogen fluoride and carbonyl fluoride.

 

[CDX825]

Look up a side tapper and A can or 2 of duster spray. R152-A

If I couldn't find R134a that would be my next choice.

 

[Asterix]

So, where can you buy pure R134a without a license in the States which doesn't have leak detection or stop leak or does nobody care about that like folks do (myself included) about stop leak in a can for tires?

My local Harbor Freight store in Virginia carries 12oz cans, Johnsen's brand. I've also bought cans of pure R134a at my local NAPA store.

 

[Exhaustgases]

Yeah they slowly keep taking away more stuff from us. How about some iodine to put on a cut or scratch.

 

[joegreen]

So, where can you buy pure R134a without a license in the States which doesn't have leak detection or stop leak or does nobody care about that like folks do (myself included) about stop leak in a can for tires?

Honestly i have never had anyone ask for a license to buy refrigerant that i can recall. any Walmart or autoparts store or harbor freight should have it or even craigslist or offerup. If not, im sure you can get some bitog member to buy it for you.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I wasn't planning to use it but you can get 1234 yf in Canada easily enough. It’s quite pricy.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Well gents, I followed the allowable Canadian regulations and after I fixed my leaks I loaded my system with 24 oz of R12 A, a refrigerant approved of use in motor vehicles in Canada. It’s a mixture of propane and Iso-Butane. One interesting fact is that you only load 40% by weight of R12A vs R134A. And, no I don’t lose sleep over it.

 

[WobblyElvis]

Wish I had seen this thread earlier. Could have got you hooked up with some R134a.
Interesting facts, it's not illegal to vent r134a into the atmosphere in Canada or the U.S. You can buy R134a in Canada without a license.

Problem is you can't vent r134a refrigerant into the atmosphere and you can't buyr134a refrigerant in Canada.
The difference is the use and the packaging the r134a comes in.

 

[atikovi]

You can buy R134a in Canada without a license.

Problem is you can't vent r134a refrigerant into the atmosphere and you can't buyr134a refrigerant in Canada.

Aren't those two opposite statements?