12V Lithium Titanate Battery from China - size 51R - went from 435CCA to 1764CCA

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Nov 8, 2018
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678
Location
Ontario, Canada
Taobao is like the Amazon of China and as a hobby, I'm always on the lookout for cool products.

Back in July, I came across a vendor selling custom lithium titanate car batteries. You send the dimensions, they make the battery.

Research from Google:
-Cycle life of more than 20,000 (design life of 60-90 years)
-Can output more than 2000amps of starting current
-At -40°C, lithium titanate battery's capacity retention ratio is over 70%@0.5C discharging; At -20°C, it is up to 99%; At 75°C, it is over 90%

Went ahead and it took about 100 days to arrive via China Post sea mail to Canada.

Cost:
900RMB for the battery (130USD)
300RMB for the battery management system (60USD)
475RMB for China Post with insurance (94USD)
--------
$284USD all in

Link to the product on Taobao (google translate required): https://m.tb.cn/h.Ui8xiR3?tk=WyqRd30x88A

If interested in buying, send PM and I'll explain the process of using a shipping forwarder.

Unfortunately, the shipping forwarder decided to play around with the capacity percentage screen before sending it and left it on. The screen does not have an auto-shut off.

It spent 100 days in the shipping container severely discharged.

The positive side had some corrosion:
IMG_6392.JPG


Cleaned it off with some vinegar and this is how it looks. Normally 51R terminals are on the ends but here, they placed it in the middle:
IMG_6393.JPG


Translation of the front label using Google Translate:
IMG_7558.jpg


I charged it using a basic 1amp charger that doesn't have a desulfation mode and the screen turned on to show the battery percentage.

So far, it doesn't seem like I can get the battery status percentage to go over 67%. I'll have to ask the vendor if it's because it was discharged while in transit.

If there are any battery experts on here, I'd love some insight.

After it was installed in the HR-V, I brought it to the local autoparts store (PartsSource) to have the cold cranking amps tested.

Even though the battery was damaged, it still looks like it might be usable.

IMG_7556.jpg


The real test will be leaving it out in the cold for a week.

Old battery:
IMG_7557.jpg


I've got a CTEK battery analyzer on it so as winter progresses, will keep track of the voltage and keep the thread updated.
 
That's pretty impressive. Maybe the capacity and voltage readings will improve after some use.

I'd like a light weight Lithium battery for my Jaguar F-Type. The trunk mounted battery is about 80 pounds!
 
That's pretty impressive. Maybe the capacity and voltage readings will improve after some use.

I'd like a light weight Lithium battery for my Jaguar F-Type. The trunk mounted battery is about 80 pounds!

Here I thought the H8 battery in my other car was heavy (~50lbs).

The vendor has a positive review from someone who installed it in his BMW X1.

Please note, I am not familiar w/ this battery but some times you need a special charger for each chemistry.

AGM batteries take a special charger unlike your regular batteries.

Thanks for the warning. I'm just trusting the seller's advice.

She made it seem like any basic 12v charger would be fine. I just know that lithium doesn't like the desulfation mode so that was avoided. She also said that it wouldn't harm the alternator (not sure if it's because of the battery management system).
 
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I'm not sure there is actually a BMS installed. A proper 12v 6S 2000amp BMS would be a very hefty piece of kit and far more than $60.

They might just be calling the display a BMS and directly connecting those cells to the terminals. Luckily though LTO batteries are fairly robust and it shouldn't be a huge issue at least compared to regular li-ion. Desulfurization and equalization cycles on a lead acid charger would definitely do some damage though.

I'd be very curious about the actual internal construction.
 
report back in 2 or 3 years how the 25 year battery is doing.

Not convinced yet.
IMO its possible to be similar to those led bulbs that say 18 year life and last 1-2 years

Lab testing "theoretical life" is not the rough underhood life of a car battery.
 
Please note, I am not familiar w/ this battery but some times you need a special charger for each chemistry.

AGM batteries take a special charger unlike your regular batteries.
Agreed. I am unfamiliar with Lithium Titanate charging requirements, but I have a lithium ion battery on my motorcycle and it requires a lithium specific charger. In reading the instructions for my lithium ion battery, they claim you can use a standard battery maintainer, but caution NOT to use a battery maintainer with a desulfation mode setting, or cold weather settings. Just a standard type microprocessor controlled battery tender or one with a lithium ion specific setting. I would want to ask the battery manufacturer what type of charger and what setting is recommended for lithium titanate.
 
report back in 2 or 3 years how the 25 year battery is doing.

Not convinced yet.
IMO its possible to be similar to those led bulbs that say 18 year life and last 1-2 years

Lab testing "theoretical life" is not the rough underhood life of a car battery.

Will do.

My worry is it's not waterproof and the car doesn't have an engine splash shield.

Other than that, I think it's possible for the battery to last for years as it's a technology that's been used in Chinese electric buses for over 7 years now. If it dies, it's probably due to a connection and not the cells themselves.

Did some research to see if any vendors sell similar batteries in the United States and came across these cells that the audio community seems to like.

https://bigjeffaudio.com/products/x...ithium-titanate-oxide-lto-batterys-w-balancer

f0e1e3f304e3be9accc4e9cc21aae743.jpeg
4aec6daa5211e780f20565f6ea895c54.jpeg

They're selling re-badged Yinlong cells.

They were used on electric buses in China for 7-10 years before being re-sold.

Screen Shot 2022-12-10 at 9.09.59 PM.png

Screenshot from the Yinlong website: https://www.yinlong.energy/yinlong-battery

I think the cells in my battery are supposed to be brand new LG as described in the previous post.

I'm not sure there is actually a BMS installed. A proper 12v 6S 2000amp BMS would be a very hefty piece of kit and far more than $60.

They might just be calling the display a BMS and directly connecting those cells to the terminals. Luckily though LTO batteries are fairly robust and it shouldn't be a huge issue at least compared to regular li-ion. Desulfurization and equalization cycles on a lead acid charger would definitely do some damage though.

I'd be very curious about the actual internal construction.

Google translate did the work so it's very possible there was a miscommunication but this is what was said -

Seller: "900 yuan does not include protection board, if there is a management system, add 300 yuan"

I asked for more info and she replied: "active balance".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is that considered a BMS?

I'll ask for photos of the internal construction on Monday. She was really nice when we spoke so there's a good chance she might share.
 
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Will Prowse doesn't like them for 12V applications. link

Thanks for sharing. Video is from 2020 and it seems like things have changed since then.

Please correct me if wrong -

Top reason he didn't like it:
Screen Shot 2022-12-11 at 12.47.46 PM.png


I paid $283USD shipped for 50aH capacity. Prices for cells have dropped.

Reason #2 Volumetric density is 177Wh/L and reason #3: specific energy is slow 60-110Wh/kg.

He says they are heavy.

My old 51R battery weighs 12.82kg

This lithium titanate battery weighs 11.1kg

Old 51R battery had 42aH capacity. This new one has 50aH capacity.

Reason #4 says you can’t use LTO with 12v standard equipment

This battery was made in a 6S configuration which he said was preferred and would give out the proper voltage range.

The issue was it would have a capacity of 78.25% of what was rated when in a 12v 6S configuration.

If we look at the LG cells the vendor posted, each cell has 10aH capacity.

6 cells = 60aH

78.25% of 60aH = 46.95aH capacity so pretty close to what is advertised and better than my old battery

Reason number 5 is LTO BMS balancing threshold is too high

He says 15v+ is required for the BMS to balance with the balancing modules on the market .

I assume new balancing modules have been released since 2020. Maybe like the one is this listing
https://bigjeffaudio.com/products/x...ithium-titanate-oxide-lto-batterys-w-balancer
 
Are you familiar with lithium iron phosphate?


Yeah, my dashcam battery pack is made of it. Allows it to continue recording when the car is off.
61i13SDE-IL._AC_SL1411_.jpg



When I bought the lithium titanate car battery, I mentioned to the vendor that my lithium iron phosphate dashcam battery isn't even 1/5th of the capacity of this car battery yet it cost me $400CAD.

Google translate said "jaw is on the floor".

Apparently lithium iron phosphate prices are much cheaper there.
 
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