12 Honda Pilot M1 0w-40 7400 mi OCI-max towing

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Autodarken

I'll be honest, I'm really confused by your post OVERKILL. While I corrected my error when I called out temps, and provided the spec showing 0w-40 was thicker than 0w-20 when cold, I'm still getting grief. Where's the beef?

You stated:

Quote:

The W rating is @ 32f/0c, so you may want to double check on this statement. I found under 32f specs for 0w-40 Mobil 1 was drastically thicker than 5w-30's, 5w-20's and 0w-20's.

Which you admitted was wholly incorrect (you had posted the wrong temperature) and I acknowledged that. So if we correct the temperature and say -30C for example, the only one that is going to be thinner than the 0w-40 is the 0w-20. There's a low temperature cross-over where the 0w-xx oil thickens less than the 5w-xx oil and that's how it manages to carry the 0w-xx designation. So a 5w-30 will be thinner than a 0w-40 at operating temperature and then below 0C for a while until there's a crossover where the 5w-xx begins to thicken significantly and the 0w-xx does not. It is not until the temperature is much colder that the 0w-xx begins to thicken in the same manner. I tried to explain the limits for CCS and how they applied and you sarcastically replied to me telling me I better talk to Mobil and tell them they are wrong and then proceeded to quote the MRV values for their 0w-20 and 0w-40, which have nothing to do with CCS and are measured at a completely different temperature. Not sure where the disconnect is here, but the reason you are getting grief is because you've generally been a bit sarcastic and rude.

 

[Autodarken]

I see where the disconnect is, and I don't think its me, so yes I have been on the short side. You should have just stopped at the confirmation of my first statement (with temp correction) that 0w-40 is thicker at very cold temps than 0w-20. I never took this any further. Instead, you're continually pointing to "max" allowable charts for a given weight oil. Look, I don't care what the max allowable is for any given test, I posted the actual measurement. If I really wanted to know the limits of the ASTM test, your chart is wonderful. The second column shows me the limits of the test Mobil used and posted. So you can explain the limits and crossover business all you want, which is what you think I don't understand. But I do and they don't apply to this conversation at all. Or at least, they were never meant to. It just adds confusion to what should have been a simple comment based on fact with one wrong temp first posted. Sheesh!!!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Autodarken

I see where the disconnect is, and I don't think its me, so yes I have been on the short side.

I see we are going to get along just swimmingly.

Quote:

You should have just stopped at the confirmation of my first statement (with temp correction) that 0w-40 is thicker at very cold temps than 0w-20. I never took this any further. Instead, you're continually pointing to "max" allowable charts for a given weight oil. Look, I don't care what the max allowable is for any given test, I posted the actual measurement.

You posted MRV and told me I was wrong, LOL! That's why I pointed to the chart.

Quote:

If I really wanted to know the limits of the ASTM test, your chart is wonderful. The second column shows me the limits of the test Mobil used and posted.

And you may also notice the limits for MRV are MUCH higher than for CCS, which is Cold Cranking Simulator and is certainly the more relevant test. Do you ever start your vehicle at -40C? No? Then why do you care about MRV?

Quote:

So you can explain the limits and crossover business all you want, which is what you think I don't understand. But I do and they don't apply to this conversation at all. Or at least, they were never meant to. It just adds confusion to what should have been a simple comment based on fact with one wrong temp first posted. Sheesh!!!

I don't think it adds confusion at all. I'm attempting to clarify this rather obvious confusion:

Originally Posted By: Autodarken

I found under 32f specs for 0w-40 Mobil 1 was drastically thicker than 5w-30's, 5w-20's and 0w-20's.

Notice that you don't specify just 0w-20, you specify 5w-30 and 5w-20 as well. If you understood what I was explaining, you never would have made that statement. Which is WHY I took the additional effort to explain the different temperatures at which CCS is measured, because it IS relevant and DOES apply to this conversation. We can go back and forth on this all you want, there's a reason I have north of 24,000 posts.

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

We can go back and forth on this all you want, there's a reason I have north of 24,000 posts.

And why he goes by the name OVERKILL

 

[OVERKILL]

Interesting data points BTW (I know you already hate me but hey, I figured even you might be interested in this): Quaker State 0w-20: CCS: 5,030cP @ -35C MRV: 17,100cP @ -40C Pennzoil Platinum 0w-20: CCS: 5,680cP @ -35C MRV: 20,800cP @ -40C Pennzoil Ultra 0w-40: CCS: 5,700cP @ -35C CCS: 22,500cP @ -40C Pennzoil 5w-20: CCS: 5,540cP @ -30C At -35C, PU 0w-40 and PP 0w-20 are almost the same viscosity with only 20cP separating them. Quaker state 0w-20 is significantly lighter than both of them at this temperature. PYB 5w-20 is approaching those CCS values 5 degrees warmer so, is probably north of 11,000cP if not heavier at -35C. That also means that at -30C, PU 0w-40 would be about 2,850cP, or about half as thick as PYB 5w-20 based on information about viscosity doubling at these temperatures for every 5C posted some time back. What I'd like to point out is that at -35C, the difference between the 0w-20 and 0w-40 Pennzoil products is essentially non-existent, which almost appears to fly in the face of what we were discussing earlier. Yet you add those extra 5 degrees to reach -40C and all of a sudden there's almost a 2,000cP difference between them. Which is also, interestingly enough, less of a difference than what is between the two 0w-20's. What's the relevance you ask? Well without the CCS viscosity for the two Mobil oils we are discussing, we don't really know how far off they are from each other. I would posit that the difference would be more than the 20cP observed between the two SOPUS products, but we don't know by how much.

 

[Autodarken]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

We can go back and forth on this all you want, there's a reason I have north of 24,000 posts.

And why he goes by the name OVERKILL

Got that right. I'm done here.

 

[mtxjohn]

Am I the only one who thinks that Iron is really high for such low mileage? Our j32 08 tl is 10 ppm iron for 8200 miles on amsoil 0/20

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: mtxjohn

Am I the only one who thinks that Iron is really high for such low mileage? Our j32 08 tl is 10 ppm iron for 8200 miles on amsoil 0/20

Its irrelevant. A used oil analysis is only accurate in monitoring the oil,not wear. Now if a person gets a used oil analysis done every oil change and uses the data to trend then yes any anomaly in the data is useful as potentially exposing a problem however wear metals aren't accurately represented in a typical used oil analysis. So yes,your the only one who thinks iron is high simply because you aren't reading the used oil analysis properly.

 

[Jaymus]

Originally Posted By: mtxjohn

Am I the only one who thinks that Iron is really high for such low mileage? Our j32 08 tl is 10 ppm iron for 8200 miles on amsoil 0/20

Also, and yes, I know what I'm getting into, but also, Mobil1 has consistently shown very slightly higher Iron wear for my whole time on this site. I'm not saying it means anything. [censored], I have Mobil1 Racing 4T 10W-40 in my Gixxer and actually put Mobil1 0W-40 in my 86 F150 with the 5.0 EFI to give me peace of mind over this past winter... and am still running it. (After 6 years straight of Rotella T6 5W-40). BUT, still, in UOA's, M1 has seemed to show higher Fe, even though it is miniscule, and also, this vehicle was towing 4500lbs, so that will increase wear in several spots. PS: I will be going back to Rotella T6 5W-40 in my flat tappet 5.0 F150 because of the higher zinc/phosphorous and lower price. But I used 0W-40 because of the less than 10 degree Fahrenheit temps I was starting up in and, also, M1 0W-40 has more zinc/phos than the other M1 oils. I'm trying to shut up.