10k SL Schaeffers 15w40 1.9L Escort Wagon(gas)

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

This analysis consist of this..

1.9L 4cly engine... 90,500 miles on engine
Miles on oil..... 10,500.
Using M1 filter
Engine been running Schaeffers 15w40 since 70,000 miles.

Driving conditions, first 6,000 miles, normal city/ hwy. At 6k I added 1 bottle of 131 neutra.

Last 4,500 miles was loaded with my fat butt, wife's (can't disclose size

), 14yr and 7yr old girls, along with all lugage and oil samples and timken machine.

Driving conditions on this trip, mostly 80 to 85mph, sometimes topped 95mph.(yeah I know, I drive fast

).

Trip was from jacksonville fl, to above ft. worth Tx., to central texas, to Ark(visit Tim), back to Florida. Ambient temp's were 85+ deg.

code:

---

Wear Metals

copper 10

iron 30

chrom 0

alum 2

lead 18

Additives

moly 121

phos 1146

zinc 1260

magnesum 14

calc 3587



Contaminants

%antifreeze,fuel,%h20 all 0



Oil Properties

Vsic 16.65 (sae 50w)

sulfur 4

oxidation 32

nitration 35

soot 0

---

At the end of this trip, I was a qt low at the time I pulled a sample, then I did an oil change. No oil was added during this 10,500 mile run nor any filter changes.

[ July 18, 2002, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[con carne]

Bob,

What do you think the cause of the viscosity increase was? It would seem also that wear metals (iron in particular) are slightly high.

 

[Patman]

I'm curious as to why you use 15w40 in this engine Bob? Wouldn't 10w30 be the viscosity of choice? You'd see more MPG for sure. You need a faster car if you're gonna drive 95mph, that little four banger must take all day to reach that speed!

(trust me, I know what that feels like, my wife's Honda only tops out at about 105mph and it takes all day to get there, with my Firebird I can go from 60mph to 100 in the blink of an eye, and it will easily top out at 155!) Don't tell my mom that or she'll do this:

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

As for the viscosity increase, first, it is the real low side of a 50wt, so it was on it's way up. According to the lab, they stated that oil with less than 50% oxidation and not more than than 10% of it's normal visc. which in this case would be 17.9 is still acceptable.

This engine has never used a drop before and has not used any what so ever since I've been back, I contribute the oil consumption to the excessive speed and abuse I put it through in the small 4cly engine and most likely burn oil past the rings. Like patman said, this engine isn't designed to run like that. I'd have to say that may be the reason for increase viscosity due to that, which in my opinion would not necessarily mean it was the oil so much as it was the engine. Had I topped the oil off, I'm sure it would have decreased the viscosity back to what it should have been, but I wanted to get a good feel for what it did especially having had a full bottle of neutra in the oil for 4,000 miles.

My thoughts are that those wear #'s are pretty dang good for the abuse. I'm very confident that had I drove like the car was designed for, I would have seen much less, but even with those numbers, they are not anything to really be concerned with considering the miles, abuse,and the 131 neutra that was in there. I'll be taking another sample at 5,000 miles and see how that looks and expect it to be much lower again. Got another 3,000 miles left before I pull that next sample.

 

[Bror Jace]

My guess is Bob is as "entropy-averse" as I am ... maybe even more so and what's best for mileage isn't necessarily best for preventing wear.

I had an Escort with a 1.9L back in 1986. Wasn't much of an engine. I used Castrol GTX in it (mostly 10W40, I think) and it was using oil bu 30,000 miles. I gave the car to my brother at about that time when I bought a 1990 Integra

and he eventually sold it. I saw the car years later with over 90,000 miles on it and the owner was still fairly happy with it.

Patman, my '95 Civic DX struggled at any speed over 80mph until I added an aftermarket intake and exhaust (especially the DC Sports cat-back exhaust). However, I don't know if your wife would like the extra noise.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

I'm sorry patman, forgot to mention why I use 15w40 in this car. Unlike you boys that live up there in yankee territory, It gets a little warm down here. I myself believe that hydrodynamic properties of an oil is criticl as well as the added levels of certain additives. No, the engine is not designed for that wt but I myself like this wt in this heat. btw, 107 deg today forcast.

That is something else I forgot to mention was I run my A/c all the time including during my trip to texas.

I don't worry so much about gas milage and I suspect the difference would be very minimal as I currently get 23-24 in town and 27-29 on the hwy considering my driving habits, not really all that bad. As for getting up to top speed, hmmm, never have gone much over 100, seems to have plenty left. yeah, it takes a bit to get up to normal speed but the trade off is my milage is better than yours

I don't really know how much better/worse my #'s would have looked had I ran 10w30 in place but I honestly feel that under these conditions I'd been relying more on the barrier additive more so than hydrodynamic. Maybe next time I should try it just for GP.

BTW, this car runs excellent and has not given me any indications of engine problems, including oil consumption. Got to admit, I was a little suprised to see it a qt low as that was the first time, but after the trip and oil change, it went right back to not using any.

[ July 19, 2002, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[Patman]

Just out of curiosity, if you owned my Firebird, and lived in my area would you run 15w40 in the summer instead of 10w30? Our summers are usually pretty mild, normal daytime highs are about 80F, although this summer has been hotter than normal and we've had a few weeks of 90-95F temps. I haven't seen it go over 100F in many years.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

I'd go with the 10w30, run it, and if the results were not desireable, then up it to 15w40, but I honestly believe you wont have any problem. In the case of schaeffers, I just have this "feel good" attitude when it comes to hydrodynamic properties. Kinda like Bror said.

 

[Patman]

Even though I drag race my car, and do full throttle blasts a few times a day, in all honesty my car isn't driven majorly hard all the time. I'd venture to say that 99% of it's life my engine spends it's time purring along below 2000rpm.

So based on that, I do feel comfortable running 10w30, but I am curious as to whether or not I'd see any different wear numbers with 15w40. Maybe I'll give it a try next summer.

By the way, my case of Schaeffers is sitting at the bus depot right now waiting to be picked up. As luck would have it, this bus depot is just a few miles from my house, so it's not as inconvenient to get this stuff as I had originally feared. I just hope I don't get stuck in traffic on my way home, as I only have until 6pm to pick it up (they are closed on weekends) and I leave here at 5pm and usually don't make it home until just before 6 if traffic is good, and after 6 if there is a jam. I guess I'll be doing a bit more hard driving this afternoon to make sure I get there sooner!

 

[VaderSS]

There is a major difference between an underpowered 4cyl an a very lazy v8. Plus, you have an oil cooler. To put the kind of strain that 80 per gives the escort motor, you would have to be on the autobahn with your F-Body. If you were to sustain, say 130-140, for hours at a time, a thicker oil would probably be called for.

 

[Patman]

I actually don't have an oil cooler on mine. According to the 95 brochure, all 3.23 geared cars (like mine) should have it, but mine didn't. Mine has the GU5 code (and it's definitely 3.23s back there) but no KC4 code for the oil cooler. Plus I would've seen the cooler the first time I took the oil filter off when I bought the car, and it isn't there. I've heard a lot of horror stories about these coolers anyways, they are prone to problems.

 

[MolaKule]

Patman,

I have the integral oil cooler in the '92 Burb and you have seen the oil analysis results.

We are about to come up on another analysis. Between my wife and I, we put about
about 800 miles/week on our two daily drivers, the Burb and the Nissan.

Bob,

Would you ever consider trying say Amsoil 10W30 in your car for a test if someone else supplied the oil? My B-I-L says he would give you the oil (as in free, gee, I don't get those kind of deals!) if you wanted to run a test comparison.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

I'd have to pass for 2 reasons.
1.>
It would not do any good as I have been running this oil since 70,000 miles and the engine has had moly plated and will not deminish for quite some time. This would scew any analysis report #'s with another oil as moly would still be reflecting and also affect wear #'s.

2.> I have done my little test on amsoil and even though it didn't do bad, it in my opinion didn't show to do as good as Schaeffers. As you can see from my engine and driving conditions, I'd be leary of how well it'd hold up(not the base oil I have no doubts it would be good but)for wear protection. I know it's a good oil, but many have tried both and also based on that, they have all commented on the difference between the two.

Maybe we could reverse this and I arrange for him to try the schaeffers as he doesn't have the moly plating to effect any #'s.

 

[MolaKule]

The wrench survided, thank goodness, but Bro, we are not sure.

 

[MolaKule]

Thanks BoB,

Since I will be using Shaeffer's and running it against both Amsoil and Mobil 1 SuperSyn,
he says he will wait for the analyses with my test runs.

He has similar thoughts - if it provides equal or better protection for a lower cost, he is not averse to changing oil and thinking.

i.e., he's a bit more openmided than most of Al's dealers; or it could be because I dropped a wrench on his head one day (quite by ACCIDENT!) while in working on some Heavy Equipment.

 

[Scott_in_WI]

OUCH!

I hope you didn't damage a perfectly good wrench....

 

[Al]

I think those are real good numbers for 10K-I'm impressed.

 

[wes]

Bob: Those of us with the 1.9 four banger have to stick together; I drive a '93 Escort hatchback with 116+ and have hit similiar speeds with what seemed like plenty left.

10w30 Chevron synthetic and happy with it, though I've not had the oil analyzed.

 

[jjbula]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
This analysis consist of this..

Wear Metals
copper 10
iron 30
chrom 0
alum 2
lead 18
Additives
moly 121
phos 1146
zinc 1260
magnesum 14
calc 3587

.[/B]
[HR][/HR]
[/QUOTE]
When I compare this to your virgin sample--

Schaeffers base oil sample 

code:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

701 703 700 
5w30 10w30 15w40
Mo 179 171 169
Ph 1435 1431 1429 
Zinc 1374 1440 1405
Calc 3308 3320 3703
Silcon 6 9 10 

[B]You only used 50 units of Mo. Does that vary much with type of vehicle?[/B]

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

That varies in many ways.

different batches can have slightly higher or lower starting amounts.

how a person drives

condition of motor

and mainly how long have you been running an oil with this in it as the longer it is run, the more it has plated therefore doesn't deplete the oil's reserve of moly for longer periods of time.

Something I'd like to add here. Moly in Schaeffers is ONLY ONE PART of this barrier additive. They use this in conjunction with the newer Antimony Dithiocarbamate, Known as thier secret ingrediant or PENTRO?. This along with the Moly lays down a different foundation of barrier additive that when looking at many oils with moly is not the same my understanding. Maybe we can get some of these chemical engineers to step in here and elaborate a little more on this in simple terms.