10k.....no friggin way......not in my Passat

[CivicFan]

I keep coming across the mad assertion of 1,000 mile OCI for Audis or BMW-s using Mobil1 oil...

In both our cars I run 10k OCI on GC or M1 0w40 and believe me, the OCI is the least of my concerns in this world. No ill effects despite spirited driving on the BMW and the direct injection 3.2l engine in the Audi.

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
In both our cars I run 10k OCI on GC or M1 0w40 and believe me, the OCI is the least of my concerns in this world.

Hey that's great. I'm sure that is exactly how the owner of the car pictured above felt. He changed his M1 0w40 at 10k intervals since new. Now he has multiple problems with the engine stemming from valve deposits. This is just what Dyson was saying would happen years ago. It's not the same engine as yours but just an example of what can happen when someone simply takes things on authority from the manufacturer rather than depending on advice from experts like Dyson and from objective data such as a database of engine-specific UOAs from multiple users/oils.

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
In the real world of a giant car company, engineers' recommendations are not transferred directly to the consumer. So are you talking about the engineers who designed the engine, the people who set the OCI in the owners manual (likely heavily influenced by marketing), or warranty service centers (widely regarded by most knowledgeable VW owners as the most ignorant people who can work on your car)?

I guess I'm talking about any engineers and managers involved in rebuilding and paying for the vast flood of VW engines which must surely be failing under warranty due to the grossly over-optimistic recommendations printed in the VW manuals.

How could they not notice? Why would they not change the recommendation based upon experience and the huge costs they are incurring? It makes no sense. Especially since they apparently care enough to come up with their own standards which go well beyond ACEA, ILSAC, and API.

It makes much more sense to consider that Internet car owners' forums probably spread more fallacious rumors than they do accurate information.

What's the warranty on those things, anyway? I know that for Toyota, it's effectively 100,000 miles. Typically, it starts out at 60,000 miles. But it's as likely as not that the car will get traded in and end up as a Certified Used Toyota with a warranty extended out to 100,000 miles. I assume VW has some similar program.

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
Hey that's great. I'm sure that is exactly how the owner of the car pictured above felt.

Meaning that the pictured engine is not one from your personal experience, and that you don't even know the person whose engine it was, because it's just a photo you found on the Internet somewhere? And you're lecturing on the pitfalls of "taking things on authority"?

What evidence is there that the proper oil was used and changed at the factory recommended service intervals for whatever type driving was being done? (100,000 miles in less than 4 years is a clue that this is not normal service... assuming that it really is a 2006 GLI at 100,000 miles.)

At any rate, listening to the recommendations and requirements of the manufacturer and long-term warrantor of the engine is hardly "taking things on authority". It's listening to the people who have the most experience and statistical basis for knowing what works, and who have a vested interest in making sure that the recommendations are sound.

 

[CivicFan]

Quote:
Hey that's great. I'm sure that is exactly how the owner of the car pictured above felt.


It's the intake manifold. More frequent oil changes will not affect these deposits because the reason these deposits form is the absence of fuel diluting them.

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: sbergman27
Originally Posted By: saaber1
Hey that's great. I'm sure that is exactly how the owner of the car pictured above felt.

Meaning that the pictured engine is not one from your personal experience, and that you don't even know the person whose engine it was, because it's just a photo you found on the Internet somewhere? And you're lecturing on the pitfalls of "taking things on authority"?

What evidence is there that the proper oil was used and changed at the factory recommended service intervals for whatever type driving was being done? (100,000 miles in less than 4 years is a clue that this is not normal service... assuming that it really is a 2006 GLI at 100,000 miles.)

At any rate, listening to the recommendations and requirements of the manufacturer and long-term warrantor of the engine is hardly "taking things on authority". It's listening to the people who have the most experience and statistical basis for knowing what works, and who have a vested interest in making sure that the recommendations are sound.


I am stating what the person said who posted the picture of his valves. Are you saying his is lying? Feel free to ask him if he is lying. Looking at his other posts, he is not blowing smoke.

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Quote:
Hey that's great. I'm sure that is exactly how the owner of the car pictured above felt.


It's the intake manifold. More frequent oil changes will not affect these deposits because the reason these deposits form is the absence of fuel diluting them.

Tell that to Dyson and the other experts (including the FAQ posted by Penzoil on BITOG) who say that fuel-diluted/sheared and volatile oil has a lot to do with those deposits.

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
I am stating what the person said who posted the picture of his valves.

And who might that be? You're the one who posted the photo, making no attribution, and have only referred to him as "the guy".

 

[saaber1]

Yea you're right. Just trust VW and nothing bad will happen. I suppose this guy (his name is Jonathan) is lying also. Along with the maybe hundreds? of similar stories for th esame issue. You're right, they are all just making it up.

"Bone Stock 2006 GLI, 0w40Mobil1 every 10k. misfiring at idle since about 60k miles. have been chasing coils and plugs, but perhaps this is the culprit.
initial post on vortex with feedback from others here:

[URL]http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4165431[/url]

"

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
[URL]http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4165431[/url]

"No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"

Just trust VW and nothing bad will happen.

Makes a lot more sense to trust the warrantor than to trust random guys on the Internet.

If you ever want to "prove" something... anything... no matter how bizarre or outré... just Google for it. If a claim *can* be made is almost certainly *has* been made... somewhere in a forum on the net.

 

[saaber1]

There is nothing bizarre or outrageous here. It's well known in the 2.0FSI owner community and well documented. Research it and you will see.

 

[JAG]

sbergman27, in addition to what saaber1 has stated, I want to add that I followed VW's 5K mile OCI with VW 502 oils in my 2003 1.8T engine and got enough engine and PCV system deposits to clog the PCV system. That cost me over $500 in parts and labor to replace. The sludge debacle with the longitudinal 1.8T engines was a different and even worse thing than what I went through. Your faith in the goodness of VAG's recommendations for modern VWs/Audis seems too strong in my opinion.

 

[sbergman27]

My point, which you haven't addeessed, is that if the current OCI recommendations are so out of line, then why is VW choosing to continue hemorrhaging the millions and millions of dollars it must be costing them to replace all those engines when it would be so very simple to simply issue a TSB reducing the OCI mileage? When the companies I've worked with notice a big freaking financial hemorrhage, they usually look around for a way to stem the flow of blood. Perhaps VW is in shock from the blood loss and can't help themselves?

There is something very, very wrong with this picture.

 

[saaber1]

I totally forgot about the sludge issue JAG, you're right. In that example VW did eventually do something about it as I recall but only when their feet were held to the fire (my memory is fuzzy here). JAG, do you remember how many years after the engines were first produced that VW started taking "responsibility" (I use that term very loosely) for the sludge issue?

Another example is VW recently extended the warranty on the DSG tranny for many cars to 10 years/100k miles. This was done only after a very large PR hit, multiple NHTSB complaints, and a major news story. Toyota of course is another example of when someone on the technical level supposedly knew about the problems but big corporate politics prevented that info. from being used in a meaningful way, and certainly not making it to the customer.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: sbergman27
My point, which you haven't addeessed, is that if the current OCI recommendations are so out of line, then why is VW choosing to continue hemorrhaging the millions and millions of dollars it must be costing them to replace all those engines

They're not replacing any engines for free, IMO. During the warranty period, if the customer complains, they'll just do some deposit cleaning, and after the warranty is over (50K miles, is it?), it's not their problem anymore.

Quote:

when it would be so very simple to simply issue a TSB reducing the OCI mileage?

You expect them to come out and say that their cars need to have the oil changed every 1K miles? They'd be a laughing stock of the industry and nobody would buy their cars with that amount of maintenance involved.

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
I totally forgot about the sludge issue JAG, you're right. In that example VW did eventually do something about it as I recall but only when their feet were held to the fire (my memory is fuzzy here). JAG, do you remember how many years after the engines were first produced that VW started taking "responsibility" (I use that term very loosely) for the sludge issue?

I don't know when they took action on the sludge matter but think the first 1.8T engines came to N. America in 1999. You could probably find the "sludge letter" online and see what the date was on it. I'm guessing it was a few years after 1999.

I didn't know about the DSG warranty extension you mentioned. That's interesting but unfortunate that they haven't been long lasting.

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: JAG
I didn't know about the DSG warranty extension you mentioned. That's interesting but unfortunate that they haven't been long lasting.

P.M. me if you want all the details. It's an interesting story. Mine has been pretty much perfect for 31k miles. It is mostly 1 small teflon-coated part that is failing on some trannys. I will change out the oil a bit early probably (they recommend 40k miles).

In terms of very long term longevity (300k miles say) I wonder about the "brain" (called the mechatronics unit) but the mechanical part seems to be pretty solid. There are some tuner folks pushing extreme amounts of torque (much higher than designed) through these trannys and they are holding up. Sorry to O.P. not trying to hijack your thread...

 

[tig1]

I don't have a clue about VWs, but from what you guys are talking about, and the very poor service a good friend is getting from his 04 VW, I wouldn't have one of those pieces of Bleep.

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
They're not replacing any engines for free, IMO. During the warranty period, if the customer complains, they'll just do some deposit cleaning, and after the warranty is over (50K miles, is it?), it's not their problem anymore.

You expect them to come out and say that their cars need to have the oil changed every 1K miles? They'd be a laughing stock of the industry and nobody would buy their cars with that amount of maintenance involved.

1k miles? Don't be hyperbolic. But assuming, for the sake of argument, that that *was* what was required to keep the engine in good shape, (and I find that exceedingly doubtful) it would certainly be better than destroying their reputation when all their engines fail at low mileages. How they would fine tune the timing so that the failure occurs just outside the warranty period I've no idea.

But your assertion *still* makes no sense. If they have this problem... why are they going for *extended* 10k mile service intervals? Setting the OCI recommendation to 5k miles would certainly not be untoward. There is simply no reason for them not to have adjusted the interval *IF* their warranty service statistics show that a change is justified.

It makes far more sense to just recognize that the Internet is full of unsubstantiated rumors passed around by folks who don't ask themselves if the rumors pass basic sanity tests.

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: tig1
I don't have a clue about VWs, but from what you guys are talking about, and the very poor service a good friend is getting from his 04 VW, I wouldn't have one of those pieces of Bleep.

Well, if there *were* any truth at all to these claims, it would certainly shed light on the disagreement between Japanese manufacturers and the German ones regarding oil viscosities and HTHS. Judging solely from this thread, one would have to conclude that the Germans' engines are feces and need ACEA A3 + additional manufacturer oil specs just to make it around the block, whereas the Japanese ones will run for hundreds of thousands of miles on nothing but a little cooking spray.