I just dumped the GC that had been in my 2009 Passat for 4,700 miles (4 months) and although hot, it was a nasty, pitch black concoction that seems far too thick for a 0w30. There is no way in [censored], I will do the 10K VW recommended OCI's.
10k.....no friggin way......not in my Passat
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...it was a nasty, pitch black concoction...
You might want to try a non-detergent oil. I think you'll be more pleased with the color of the used oil.
Edit: Seriously. Use oil that meets VW's specs and recommendations. And follow the OCI recommended for your type of service. You'll be perfectly fine.
...it was a nasty, pitch black concoction...
You might want to try a non-detergent oil. I think you'll be more pleased with the color of the used oil.
Edit: Seriously. Use oil that meets VW's specs and recommendations. And follow the OCI recommended for your type of service. You'll be perfectly fine.
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Could have done a UOA, but why base decisions on logic and facts when you can rely on emotion?
Very un German 8)
Very un German 8)
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If the Passat is a direct injection engine, part of the reason it was so dark is these types of engines tend to produce soot.
Originally Posted By: JAG
If the Passat is a direct injection engine, part of the reason it was so dark is these types of engines tend to produce soot.
Most of you have provided nothing constructive at all, but the soot explanation makes perfect sense.
I drive the heck out of this car. I am not easy on it and I don't try to get good gas mileage. Often I am up to 6k RPM's and thrive off of the Turbo kick.
No emotion involved, just observation.....that oil poured out of the oil pan more like a 10w40. By the way, I poured GC back in and will stick with GC. I am not bashing the oil. I am saying this engine is very, very hard on oil and a 10k OCI is rediculous.
By the way, when I purchased the oil filter from the VW dealer, the parts guy, who use to be a VW mechanic agreed with me. He said that VW was nuts to push the 1.8 and 2.0 turbos to 10k OCI's. He said that recommendation is awesome for the business at the shop.
If the Passat is a direct injection engine, part of the reason it was so dark is these types of engines tend to produce soot.
Most of you have provided nothing constructive at all, but the soot explanation makes perfect sense.
I drive the heck out of this car. I am not easy on it and I don't try to get good gas mileage. Often I am up to 6k RPM's and thrive off of the Turbo kick.
No emotion involved, just observation.....that oil poured out of the oil pan more like a 10w40. By the way, I poured GC back in and will stick with GC. I am not bashing the oil. I am saying this engine is very, very hard on oil and a 10k OCI is rediculous.
By the way, when I purchased the oil filter from the VW dealer, the parts guy, who use to be a VW mechanic agreed with me. He said that VW was nuts to push the 1.8 and 2.0 turbos to 10k OCI's. He said that recommendation is awesome for the business at the shop.
If you're happy at 5000 mile OCI's they're easy to remember and in the grand scheme not much more expensive.
Took me awhile to happily do 7500, and I'm sure I could go longer, but I really don't see the point to eeking out an extra month or whatever people think they're getting by walking the fine line.
Took me awhile to happily do 7500, and I'm sure I could go longer, but I really don't see the point to eeking out an extra month or whatever people think they're getting by walking the fine line.
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Often I am up to 6k RPM's and thrive off of the Turbo kick.
Hopefully you let the engine/oil warm up to operating temp before you step on it.
Often I am up to 6k RPM's and thrive off of the Turbo kick.
Hopefully you let the engine/oil warm up to operating temp before you step on it.
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Most of you have provided nothing constructive at all, but the soot explanation makes perfect sense.
Depends upon what you want to call constructive. Judging drained oil by color is a fallacy that gets addressed in Oil Talk 101.
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I drive the heck out of this car. I am not easy on it and I don't try to get good gas mileage. Often I am up to 6k RPM's and thrive off of the Turbo kick.
If your service meets the definition of "severe service" or whatever, or if you feel that it does, simply use that schedule.
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By the way, when I purchased the oil filter from the VW dealer, the parts guy, who use to be a VW mechanic agreed with me.
You can bet that even a trivial change in oil service recommendations involves more man-hours of meetings between VW engineers, VW management, and VW-legal than is easily imaginable.
I'll take the results of that grueling process over an ex-mechanic customer service guy behind the parts counter saying "I agree with you" to a customer he's customer-servicing.
What would you expect him to say? "No! You're wrong, you slime"?
Most of you have provided nothing constructive at all, but the soot explanation makes perfect sense.
Depends upon what you want to call constructive. Judging drained oil by color is a fallacy that gets addressed in Oil Talk 101.
Quote:
I drive the heck out of this car. I am not easy on it and I don't try to get good gas mileage. Often I am up to 6k RPM's and thrive off of the Turbo kick.
If your service meets the definition of "severe service" or whatever, or if you feel that it does, simply use that schedule.
Quote:
By the way, when I purchased the oil filter from the VW dealer, the parts guy, who use to be a VW mechanic agreed with me.
You can bet that even a trivial change in oil service recommendations involves more man-hours of meetings between VW engineers, VW management, and VW-legal than is easily imaginable.
I'll take the results of that grueling process over an ex-mechanic customer service guy behind the parts counter saying "I agree with you" to a customer he's customer-servicing.
What would you expect him to say? "No! You're wrong, you slime"?
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Originally Posted By: BobFout
Might try a different oil and see if it's any better. GC is not for all engines.
GC is factory-fill.
Might try a different oil and see if it's any better. GC is not for all engines.
GC is factory-fill.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
GC is factory-fill.
May have been at one point, some 10 years ago. Hard to tell what it is nowadays.
GC is factory-fill.
May have been at one point, some 10 years ago. Hard to tell what it is nowadays.
GC is definitely not Factory Fill in the 2.O FSI. We have five UOAs of FF and they don't look anything like GC. Speculation of Fuchs Titan sounds reasonable to me but like Quattro Pete said it's hard to tell. I doubt GC was ever a factory fill because GC was not on the 502 list until last year (it may have been on the list at some point long ago and then taken back off, I don't know about 10 years ago).
For those saying to use vw oils and use vw recommended oil change intervals, here is what happens when you do that on the 2.0 FSI:
The TSI may not abuse oils as bad as the FSI, but for the FSI we have lots of data and only when the use is 95% highway can the 502 oils go 10k miles. In Europe where the cars run in a different burn mode and where gas is different then perhaps 10k is possible. I haven't seen European UOAs so I don't know, but in the U.S. 5k is about max for even the best oils in the FSI. Many 502 oils are sheared badly in just a few thousand miles.
I would use an ester-based oil and start at 5k with a UOA and then extend the OCI if the UOA supports it.
For those saying to use vw oils and use vw recommended oil change intervals, here is what happens when you do that on the 2.0 FSI:
The TSI may not abuse oils as bad as the FSI, but for the FSI we have lots of data and only when the use is 95% highway can the 502 oils go 10k miles. In Europe where the cars run in a different burn mode and where gas is different then perhaps 10k is possible. I haven't seen European UOAs so I don't know, but in the U.S. 5k is about max for even the best oils in the FSI. Many 502 oils are sheared badly in just a few thousand miles.
I would use an ester-based oil and start at 5k with a UOA and then extend the OCI if the UOA supports it.
I didn't see it was a 2009 Passat, my bad.
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Originally Posted By: saaber1
...but for the FSI we have lots of data and only when the use is 95% highway can the 502 oils go 10k miles.
Implying that, meanwhile, the ignorant engineers at VW sit in dark rooms staring at the walls, oblivious to all this because they don't read BITOG? What's wrong with this picture? Are the phone lines down between there and the warranty service centers or something?
...but for the FSI we have lots of data and only when the use is 95% highway can the 502 oils go 10k miles.
Implying that, meanwhile, the ignorant engineers at VW sit in dark rooms staring at the walls, oblivious to all this because they don't read BITOG? What's wrong with this picture? Are the phone lines down between there and the warranty service centers or something?
Originally Posted By: sbergman27
Implying that, meanwhile, the ignorant engineers at VW sit in dark rooms staring at the walls, oblivious to all this because they don't read BITOG? What's wrong with this picture? Are the phone lines down between there and the warranty service centers or something?
In the real world of a giant car company, engineers' recommendations are not transferred directly to the consumer. So are you talking about the engineers who designed the engine, the people who set the OCI in the owners manual (likely heavily influenced by marketing), or warranty service centers (widely regarded by most knowledgeable VW owners as the most ignorant people who can work on your car)?
I think you give VW USA way too much credit. The engineers who design the engine are certainly knowledgeable, but the chance that their knowledge gets effectively translated to the consumer via vw marketing influences and the dealer network are not good. The UOA database provides proof of that. Dyson, and other knowledgeable people recognized these problems long ago. F.E. this quote from Terry Dyson:
"reb03, the M1 0w40 should not be run longer than 1000 miles to be safe.. Audi and BMW know they are having problems but are marketing tied to certain LARGE oil company that sponsors BITOG thus they cannot speak out about it."
Note that the photo above was run on M1 0W40 using the manual-recommended intervals.
You should also realize that engineers make mistakes/poor designs. A good example is the poor design of the fuel pump cam follower in the FSI engine. There are numerous examples of it failing catastrophically in as little as 30k-50k miles.
Implying that, meanwhile, the ignorant engineers at VW sit in dark rooms staring at the walls, oblivious to all this because they don't read BITOG? What's wrong with this picture? Are the phone lines down between there and the warranty service centers or something?
In the real world of a giant car company, engineers' recommendations are not transferred directly to the consumer. So are you talking about the engineers who designed the engine, the people who set the OCI in the owners manual (likely heavily influenced by marketing), or warranty service centers (widely regarded by most knowledgeable VW owners as the most ignorant people who can work on your car)?
I think you give VW USA way too much credit. The engineers who design the engine are certainly knowledgeable, but the chance that their knowledge gets effectively translated to the consumer via vw marketing influences and the dealer network are not good. The UOA database provides proof of that. Dyson, and other knowledgeable people recognized these problems long ago. F.E. this quote from Terry Dyson:
"reb03, the M1 0w40 should not be run longer than 1000 miles to be safe.. Audi and BMW know they are having problems but are marketing tied to certain LARGE oil company that sponsors BITOG thus they cannot speak out about it."
Note that the photo above was run on M1 0W40 using the manual-recommended intervals.
You should also realize that engineers make mistakes/poor designs. A good example is the poor design of the fuel pump cam follower in the FSI engine. There are numerous examples of it failing catastrophically in as little as 30k-50k miles.
Originally Posted By: saaber1
You should also realize that engineers make mistakes/poor designs. A good example is the poor design of the fuel pump cam follower in the FSI engine. There are numerous examples of it failing catastrophically in as little as 30k-50k miles.
Add to that differences in fuel quality across the world. I've read somewhere (correct me if I'm wrong) that the valve deposit issue is worse on this side of the pond due to our gas quality - something that VW engineers probably haven't tested extensively, even if they have tested it in Germany.
You should also realize that engineers make mistakes/poor designs. A good example is the poor design of the fuel pump cam follower in the FSI engine. There are numerous examples of it failing catastrophically in as little as 30k-50k miles.
Add to that differences in fuel quality across the world. I've read somewhere (correct me if I'm wrong) that the valve deposit issue is worse on this side of the pond due to our gas quality - something that VW engineers probably haven't tested extensively, even if they have tested it in Germany.
A approach in this manner:
I try to stay in grade regarding factory requirements if it makes sense.
I follow API rates and in this case ACEA rating to the letter.
And finally, if it a forever car (they never turn out to be) I never run the oil past 4k.
I'd love to own that VW and if I did, I would stick to 4-5k drains.
The 96 BMW I have has always seen 4-5k drains. If we followed the maint. minder that it has, the drains would have been more like 7.5k..... With 210,000 miles on the little engine, when I have seen so many of the same toasted, I know the oci interval plus oil section has made the difference.
I try to stay in grade regarding factory requirements if it makes sense.
I follow API rates and in this case ACEA rating to the letter.
And finally, if it a forever car (they never turn out to be) I never run the oil past 4k.
I'd love to own that VW and if I did, I would stick to 4-5k drains.
The 96 BMW I have has always seen 4-5k drains. If we followed the maint. minder that it has, the drains would have been more like 7.5k..... With 210,000 miles on the little engine, when I have seen so many of the same toasted, I know the oci interval plus oil section has made the difference.
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