100 mpg possible in real world conditions?

[expat]

"Here is a chart showing the speed/MPG relationship on a Prius. It's clear that MPG "kings" are driving very slowly. With 100MPG achievable at a steady state 22MPH. Not exactly practical. Can you imagine what kind of MPG reduction a 5MPH headwind would cause?"

The rules of the Marathon state an average speed of 30 mph must be maintained over the 370+ mile course or penalties are imposed. (not too far off real world speeds on the route taken)
Holding up traffic incures penalties.
Coasting IS allowed, but Drafting incures penalties.
Vehicles mut be stock, even down to Tire pressure!

 

[Cujet]

There is no question that driving technique and hypermiling, are exceptionally effective.

Here in South Florida, where speeds are high, roads are straight and flat and winds abound, MPG's suffer. Remember, it takes me 5 hours just to leave the state of FL at a highway speed pushing 80MPH. I would be rather annoyed to be down to bicycle speeds and have the trip eat up an entire day.

100MPG is possible at high speeds, in ultra aerodynamic, personal vehicles. Likely with tandem seating. Attempts like this were not capable of real world 100MPG, they were rated at 70MPG. Of course, these were built when carburetors and low compression engines were the norm. Today, I suspect a modern single cylinder diesel could pull it off. But just barely.

Remember the energy content of the fuel used, and the work you require of it! There is no way around these simple facts.

 

[expat]

Yes, individuals driving conditions will play a big part. No Way could I drive 80 mph(legally or safely) where I live. I have also read that the Average car speed for people that live in LA is only 35mph, which is probably close to what I manage here (living on an Island) and not far off the imposed average for the Marathoners.

The thing is, No Way can I attain anywhere close to the fuel consumption that these Marathon drivers have attained, even in the commercial vehicle classes. The engineering is just not available here! :-(

 

[expat]

To late to edit:
I realize the LA average speed is low because they spend as much time at 2mph as they do at 80mph.
Neither speed is good for good fuel consumption!

So, the other half of the hypermile equation is speed (to destination) management.
Could this be a future software add on to in car GPS systems?

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
There is no question that driving technique and hypermiling, are exceptionally effective.

Here in South Florida, where speeds are high, roads are straight and flat and winds abound, MPG's suffer. Remember, it takes me 5 hours just to leave the state of FL at a highway speed pushing 80MPH. I would be rather annoyed to be down to bicycle speeds and have the trip eat up an entire day.

100MPG is possible at high speeds, in ultra aerodynamic, personal vehicles. Likely with tandem seating. Attempts like this were not capable of real world 100MPG, they were rated at 70MPG. Of course, these were built when carburetors and low compression engines were the norm. Today, I suspect a modern single cylinder diesel could pull it off. But just barely.

Remember the energy content of the fuel used, and the work you require of it! There is no way around these simple facts.

Is that a good aerodynamic shape for sub mach1 speeds?

 

[QuietPortage]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
It's too bad we can't most of the diesels in North America. Booooo.


Can't most of the diesels? Can't what?


Please accept my most sincere apologies. I meant to type "can't get". I have brought dishonor upon myself and will now commit ritual seppuku (disembowles self).

Okay, back to the discussion. I need a commuter car and would love a diesel Subaru or better yet, the 2014 Golf BlueMotion. I'd pick up one of those today. Oh well. For being such a big market, it sure does seem like we get second-rate choices when it comes to cars.

 

[Kiwi_ME]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Oh well. For being such a big market, it sure does seem like we get second-rate choices when it comes to cars.

You have to take into account that although many markets outside of NA can get small diesels, they pay up the nose for them. The competitive NA market gets you about the lowest prices in the world for new cars.

A Golf TDI 2.0 here is NZ$45,750.. about 60% of my gross annual income as an engineer. In CA it would have been less than 20%.
Despite fuel costing around $8 a US gal they don't fly off the shelves either. About the lowest cost small diesel here is a Fiesta 1.6 or Swift 1.3, both cost around $25k.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Oh well. For being such a big market, it sure does seem like we get second-rate choices when it comes to cars.

You have to take into account that although many markets outside of NA can get small diesels, they pay up the nose for them. The competitive NA market gets you about the lowest prices in the world for new cars.

A Golf TDI 2.0 here is NZ$45,750.. about 60% of my gross annual income as an engineer. In CA it would have been less than 20%.
Despite fuel costing around $8 a US gal they don't fly off the shelves either. About the lowest cost small diesel here is a Fiesta 1.6 or Swift 1.3, both cost around $25k.


Good point, But what does a Gas Golf cost?
or to put it another way, How much of a premium do you pay for a Diesel?

 

[Kiwi_ME]

Originally Posted By: expat
But what does a Gas Golf cost?

This is the Golf line-up, only sold with DSG transmissions here. The the diesel premium is around $2k, quite small compared to other cars here where it could be as much as 10k.
The diesels get better resale as you might expect.

Golf Petrol
1.4 litre (90kW) = $38,500
1.4 litre (118kW) = $43,750

Golf Diesel
1.6 litre (77kW) BMT = $40,750
2.0 litre (103kW) = $45,750

Golf GTI
2.0 litre (155kW) = $58,500

Used cars listed at this URL

 

[earlyre]

Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
Originally Posted By: expat
But what does a Gas Golf cost?

This is the Golf line-up, only sold with DSG transmissions here. The the diesel premium is around $2k, quite small compared to other cars here where it could be as much as 10k.
The diesels get better resale as you might expect.

Golf Petrol
1.4 litre (90kW) = $38,500 *(120.69 hp)= $31,481.45
1.4 litre (118kW) = $43,750 *(158.24 hp)= $35,774.37

Golf Diesel
1.6 litre (77kW) BMT = $40,750 *(103.25 hp)= $29,252.70
2.0 litre (103kW) = $45,750 *(138.12 hp)= $37,409.77

Golf GTI
2.0 litre (155kW) = $58,500 *(207.85 hp)= $47,835.45

Used cars listed at this URL


*Blue Text = US Conversions (kw-hp), and (NZD-USD) via google 5am EST Nov,20 2012

 

[earlyre]

VW Golf's @ Carmax nationwide
Cross section of similar US Models (not sure which ones Kiwi_ME used on his listing..)

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: expat

Is that a good aerodynamic shape for sub mach1 speeds?


Ha ha ha! The Pulse was designed in the 1980's and it's likely to be a few percent less than optimal. But, the small frontal area and the teardrop shape did result in very low drag.

Remember, we clearly understand aerodynamics and the limitations involved. Even back in 1980!

 

[Shannow]

I remember when the Renault Fuego came out, and it was a class leader at 0.32 (or .34, it was a long time ago), and looked strange, but that explained it's aero qualifications.

The subaru came out with the Vortex, which was better (and world beating), and it was all wedge and angles...

And these are now beaten soundly by modern tugboats.

 

[Andy636]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
I remember when the Renault Fuego came out, and it was a class leader at 0.32 (or .34, it was a long time ago), and looked strange, but that explained it's aero qualifications.

The subaru came out with the Vortex, which was better (and world beating), and it was all wedge and angles...

And these are now beaten soundly by modern tugboats.


OMG...I remember those Renault Fuego and they where ugly as sin, pretty much the same with the Citroens of that decade, very innovative for those times with pneumatic suspension and all but plain ugly.