1.8T VW oil weight

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quote:
no, i think that 503.01 is intended for the new roller type lifters (I THINK) and has an HTHS from 2.5 or 2.9cst-3.2cst whereas, the 'old' 502 00 spec was a cst of AT LEAST 3.5 or 3.6cst. anyways, i too have a 1.8T and have good luck w/ the german syntec 0w-30 and almost NO consumption and this is with 85-93 degree days here in atlanta and driving it like it was meant to be driven-hard. cant wait to see how it does after 6K miles! next though is Lubro-Moly 0w-40!
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Chris,
VW503.01 is not low HT/HS, but VW503.00 is! Both oil specs are for extended drain ("Longlife Service"). If you put VW503.00 spec in an engine that requires VW503.01 or VW502.00, this engine will be toast at high RPM.

VW503.01 HT/HS 3.5 min
VW503.00 HT/HS 2.9-3.4


PS: Yuk, I hear you. I'm sticking with oil that meets VW502.00 for my engine. I doubt I'd buy an Audi that uses ones the new low HT/HS oils. I hear a lot of those engines self-destruct.
tongue.gif


[ July 26, 2003, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
 
It's because people (who have done research and seem to know what they're talking about) say things like,

"this engine will be toast at high RPM" if you use VW 503 00",

that make me wonder if I can take the advice of other nice people who say things like,

"The VW motor is no more special than any other motor. Just use a quality oil with a viscosity that fits your climate and you'll be fine. And if all else fails, just use whatever crap oil the dealership uses" .

If the second second statement is true, which it probably is, then why do the specifications exist in the first place?
 
Yuk,

The specs do exist for a reason, but that reason may not be relevant due to the ninny-way we drive here.
tongue.gif


Now, if there are cars who specifically call for a certain type oil (low HT/HS), then I'm sure it's clearly stated in the manual. As far as using an oil with a low HT/HS in an engine that's not made for that type oil, how would that happen in the first place, if one sticks with the recommended spec oil?
wink.gif
 
quote:
Originally posted by FowVay:
I don't know if this helps or not but here's a bit of information from VW:

If you have a older 1.8T that was built prior to model year 2000 then it specifies VW 502 spec oil.

If you have a 2000 model or newer 1.8T with either the 150 HP or 180 HP engine used in North America then it specifies VW 503.01 oil.
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The 180hp 1.8T didn't come about until mid 2001MY. The 1.8T from 1997 until early 2001 is the exact same 150hp 1.8 litre 20v turbocharged motor. So why should a different oil be used in a 1997 to 1999 motor than a 2000 and newer motor, when they're the exact same motor?

Does Valvoline 10w-30 dino oil meet VW 502 specs? This is the oil that was used in my 1998 Passat 1.8T because this is the oil my dealership used. And coincidently my turbo failed at 60k miles.

Manufacturers recomendations are the minimum requirements. Do you really think a manufacturer is going to use the best oil available? Do you really think a manufacturer wants your car to last forever? All they're worried about is the car lasting until the warranty is out. And by using the minimum recommendations, that's about as long as the car will last.
 
Yuk,

I believe the specs do matter but "science gets lost in the 'business jungle'." (As briefly as I can I will tell you what I think I mean.)
(1) Observing spec for various fluids, mechanicals, etc will ensure (as much as anything can) optimum life and performance for your vehicle (assuming the OEM hasn't told its engineers, "Shoot for an operational life of only XXXXX miles and spec to that.") BUT, vehicles being the tough old dudes that they are, will continue to run (for a while) under all sorts of "spec abuse." So many begin to think, "Hey, it doesn't REALLY matter, e.g. motor earl is motor earl."
(2) The guys and gals at the dealership (and I believe this is true at a lot of auto parts stores) think in accordance with #1 and are not really IN TO lubrication. Their mechanic friends tell the apocryphal stories about how Goopzoil sludges up motors or Glapzoil doesn't and they pass it on and on and on. Case in point: an "ASE Certified" parts specialist at a major auto parts store in town, had never heard anything bad about Fram, had heard good things "from his mechanic friends" about Valvoline, and told me he heard that YOUKNOWWHAT sludges up engines. Did he get even ONE of those right based on the info contained on this board. Not by my assessment.
(3) I think many dealers pick oil suppliers based on factors OTHER than specs (e.g friendships with local distributors, price, sales pitches, PRIce, apocryphal stories, PRICE...you get the picture. If they can get corporate's OK on what they sell, then that's what they sell...even if it is not the best product for the application based on the specs. For example, I went to a Mercedes dealership to see if they had Shell Helix Ultra because it is one of the "super oils [229.5]" recommended by Mercedes. I know it is available to Mercedes dealers. The answer to me was, "No we don't have that; we have Mobil 1 and Valvoline. (I didn't ask but I'll bet it wasn't the version of Valoline [Synpower MXL 0W-30] recommended in the 31 July 2002 Star Bulletin for use in the US...I'll just bet you!)

So, my feeling is, there are a lot of folks out there who may be great at selling and fixing cars, or great at doing some specific task within the auto parts supplying and auto fixing business they don't know or care about some things...like motor earl, for example ('cause it REALLY doesn't matter or they have been told sucha and such by their friends....or they have been lied to by a customer who SAID he/she changed the oil every XXXXK miles and so the oil HAS to be to blame for the sludge).

So, despite what the dealers do or don't do, TRUST THE SPECS!!

...for what it's worth...

PS If anyone knows, based on fact, that my observations, impressions, theories, etc are wrong I am more than willing to recant those wrong assumptions.

[ July 26, 2003, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
quote:
The 180hp 1.8T didn't come about until mid 2001MY. The 1.8T from 1997 until early 2001 is the exact same 150hp 1.8 litre 20v turbocharged motor. So why should a different oil be used in a 1997 to 1999 motor than a 2000 and newer motor, when they're the exact same motor?
Click to expand...
As I understand it, Audi (and VW) switched in '98 to "Longlife Service" in Europe. That means, they went from VW502.00 spec oil to VW503.01. Pretty much the only difference between VW502.00 and VW503.01 oil are some additive that make VW503.01 more suitable for extended drain. If geo is around, he might be able to chime in, since he seems to know a lot about VW oil specs.

Anyway, Longlife Service is to my knowledge* not (yet) available for the US models, and a car that requires VW503.01 can also use VW502.00, if a regular oil change interval is maintained.


*maybe they have it now? Those cars should have a 30k km oil change interval.

[ July 26, 2003, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
As I understand it, Audi (and VW) switched in '98 to "Longlife Service" in Europe. That means, they went from VW502.00 spec oil to VW503.01. Pretty much the only difference between VW502.00 and VW503.01 oil are some additive that make VW503.01 more suitable for extended drain. If geo is around, he might be able to chime in, since he seems to know a lot about VW oil specs.

Anyway, Longlife Service is to my knowledge* not (yet) available for the US models, and a car that requires VW503.01 can also use VW502.00, if a regular oil change interval is maintained.


*maybe they have it now? Those cars should have a 30k km oil change interval.
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This does make sence. But as you said, this is only in Europe. Here in the US, 10k mile drain intervals are the longest you'll see recommended by VWoA. And only when using a full synthetic oil.

But keep in mind the oil doesn't have to carry the 503 or 505 spec to be able to protect for long periods in a VW. Many people use Mobil Delvac-1 for 10k mile drain intervals. D1 doesn't carry the VW 505 rating, yet it protects very well.
 
TexasTDI,
Personally, I prefer to use an oil that meets the carmaker's specs. That doesn't mean other oils are not as, or maybe even more capable, but without checking data sheets and comparing data it's just impossible to come to a conclusion.
Let's say I use X-brand oil. How can I be sure that that oil is compatible with the seals in my engine? What's its HT/HS? What about piston cleanliness? Sulphated ash content?
I think it's just easier and safer to stick with the carmaker's recommendation.

PS: I'm using 10k miles oil change intervals with an oil that meets VW502.00, 505.00, and 503.01.
 
quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
As I understand it, Audi (and VW) switched in '98 to "Longlife Service" in Europe. That means, they went from VW502.00 spec oil to VW503.01. Pretty much the only difference between VW502.00 and VW503.01 oil are some additive that make VW503.01 more suitable for extended drain. If geo is around, he might be able to chime in, since he seems to know a lot about VW oil specs.

Anyway, Longlife Service is to my knowledge* not (yet) available for the US models, and a car that requires VW503.01 can also use VW502.00, if a regular oil change interval is maintained.


*maybe they have it now? Those cars should have a 30k km oil change interval.
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moribundman,

The QG1 1.8 engine, as of May 1999 (MY 2000), uses LongLife (or WIV - variable up to 30km/2yr maintenance interval extension) 503.00 (low HTHS) oil. This engine has tighter tolerances on "highly loaded engine parts (?)", higher oil flow rate, I believe a better oil cooler, and a new oil/service monitor (keeping track of revs, speed, brake wear, oil consumption, oil temp and much more). Also, if 503.00 is not available for top up, no more than 1/2 liter of 502.00 can be used in this engine. All other non-QG1 1.8 engines should use 502/500 oil, or whatever is mentioned in the manual.

As far as I know, LongLife 503.01 (high HTHS) oil is only used in the high-performance RS4, TT, and S3.

LongLife (WIV) service is not available in the US yet.

BTW mb, every source I've read, says that 502.00 and 500.00 have the same HTHS (3.5 min).
smile.gif


--

[ July 27, 2003, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: geo ]
 
They do use low HT/HS in the newer 1.8T in Europe? I stand corrected. Does this mean the US version of that motor is not the same as the current version for the European market?


PS: There's somewhere in one of the posts of the recent weeks a link to a pdf file that shows that VW502.00 has an HT/HS of 3.6 min, and that VW500.00 has an HT/HS of 3.5 min. If I find the link on occasion, I'll let you know.

[ July 27, 2003, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
 
OK.... Allow me to dumb this down a notch.... for my benefit not yours.

Lets say you're me (poor saps) and you have three choices for your 1999 Passat 1.8T:

1. Mobil 1 0w40 @ $10.00/litre, VW 502/505 and 503.01
2. German Castrol 0w30 @ $6.66/litre, VW 503.01
3. Amsoil of your choice @ $8.00-$12.00/quart

Which would you choose and why?

I can't help but think by asking my question this way I'm going to get a whole bunch of opinions not expressed before.... or maybe everyone is just going to give up.
 
Yuk,
If you have no personal animosity toward the Castrol company then I would choose this oil for use in your car based on the fact that it meets all of the requirements for your specific engine and it is priced lower than any competing product.

Personally I would look for ACEA A3 rated oils and add them to your options list.
 
Yuk,

At this point I'm inclined to give up and to just say go with the least expensive/most conveniently available one of those 3.
tongue.gif


However, if I were you, I'd either ask the dealer to tell you what VW spec you should put in, and if the dealer doesn't know (likely) or doesn't want to find out (even more likely), call Volkswagen and ask them. Someone MUST know.


PS: I'd really like to know if the current 1.8T engines are different, depending on if they are made for the European or the North American market.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Yuk:
OK.... Allow me to dumb this down a notch.... for my benefit not yours.

Lets say you're me (poor saps) and you have three choices for your 1999 Passat 1.8T:

1. Mobil 1 0w40 @ $10.00/litre, VW 502/505 and 503.01
2. German Castrol 0w30 @ $6.66/litre, VW 503.01
3. Amsoil of your choice @ $8.00-$12.00/quart

Which would you choose and why?

I can't help but think by asking my question this way I'm going to get a whole bunch of opinions not expressed before.... or maybe everyone is just going to give up.
Click to expand...
Yuk,

I'd use an oil that is 502/503.01, or 500.00 approved - try the Mobil or Castrol. Then check the UOA.

Also, if you burn oil (and some Audi/VW engines do - 1 qt/2000 is considered high normal), try a different brand and/or viscosity. My '96 500/501-spec engine guzzles M1 0W-40. Pentosin and LM 5W-40 full syn are much better for my engine (which is prone to head/ring deposits).

[ July 27, 2003, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: geo ]
 
geo,

You're right about the HT/HS of 3.5min for both, VW502 and VW500. I checked the picture clipping I have, and the VW502 spec reads like 3.6, but it's clearly 3.5 in the actual PDF file. When the link to that PDF file was first posted, my Mac couldn't open the PDF file. Someone sent me a picture clipping, and (due to size and resolution) it the 3.5 looked like 3.6.
rolleyes.gif

I'm glad it's cleared up.

A couple questions:

1. Does the German post-May-'99 version of the Audi 2.8 also use VW503.00 oil, while the US version uses VW502.00?

2. What about the new Audi 3.0 engine in the A4?

3. You said you like LM 5W-40 and Pentosin 5W-40 for your '96 2.8. Have you had an UOA done on either oil? I'm interested in both oils. Especially the LM comes recommended by some Audi owners.
 
Thank you all, especially moribundman and Geo, for your patience. Because VW 503.01 seems to be the spec becoming most commonly available in my area I was hoping someone would say that VW 503.01 was the spec needed for my car. Now I have those statements:

Geo,
quote:
503.00 will destroy non-LongLife engines - not true for 503.01.
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quote:
Yuk,
I'd use an oil that is 502/503.01, or 500.00 approved - try the Mobil or Castrol. Then check the UOA.
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moribundman,

For the record I have spoken to two VW dealers, the national PR manager (an old family friend!) and the national service manager (he didn't know what was meant by LANGZEITFILTER 30,000 km / 2 JARHE on the oil fiter!!!). No one else has given me as much information about VW oil specs as this site and you and Geo.

I will continue to harass VW Canada for info, but I'm not holding my breath. Their customer support has been so bad I have probably steered away 5 potential VW buyers. So sad, since I love the car so much
frown.gif
 
quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
geo,

You're right about the HT/HS of 3.5min for both, VW502 and VW500. I checked the picture clipping I have, and the VW502 spec reads like 3.6, but it's clearly 3.5 in the actual PDF file. When the link to that PDF file was first posted, my Mac couldn't open the PDF file. Someone sent me a picture clipping, and (due to size and resolution) it the 3.5 looked like 3.6.
rolleyes.gif

I'm glad it's cleared up.
Click to expand...
moribundman,

The same has happened to me - it's hard to read small print when picture resolution is changed.

quote:

A couple questions:

1. Does the German post-May-'99 version of the Audi 2.8 also use VW503.00 oil, while the US version uses VW502.00?
Click to expand...
In EU, all A4 and S4 engines after #8DYA 000001, except for the pump nozzle diesel engines, are LongLife WIV (LL) service. I do not know what mechanical changes were made on all these engines, if any (I mentioned the changes for the "older" 1.8/T in one of my previous messages). The Audi 4 cyl pump-nozzle diesel and 3.3 common-rail TDI are on a fixed interval, non-LL service in EU. Audi LL engines use 503.00 (low HTHS) for gas, 506.00 for non-pump-nozzle diesels, 506.01 for the A2 TDI pump nozzle, 503.01 (high HTHS) for the 165 KW turbo TT, turbo S3 and turbo RS4 high-perf engines. Non-LL engines use 502.00 for gas, 505.00 for non-pump-nozzle diesels, and 505.01 for pump-nozzle diesels.

For VW, LongLife WIV service must be identified by the QC1 label. All Golf engines after 1JYW 228162, 1JYB 015525, 1JYP 058200, and 1JYD 040654 are LL except for pump-nozzle disels. VW does not use 503.01 (high HTHS) in any of their engines.

quote:

2. What about the new Audi 3.0 engine in the A4?
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see above.

quote:

3. You said you like LM 5W-40 and Pentosin 5W-40 for your '96 2.8. Have you had an UOA done on either oil? I'm interested in both oils. Especially the LM comes recommended by some Audi owners.
Click to expand...
No I haven't. I like them because they do not burn/evap as easily as M1 0W-40 in my engine. Both oils should work fine in our 2.8 12V, with the standard US 7500 mile/6 month interval. I believe Pentosin and EU Castrol are OEM oil suppliers for Audi.

geo (3sq)

[ July 27, 2003, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: geo ]
 
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