0w20 long term cost

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Originally Posted By: Lumberjacks1
I put tgmo 0w/20 in my 2007 Honda Accord 1,000 miles ago. Mileage went from 29-30mpg to 26-27mpg. I didn't expect a huge increase in mileage, but I surely didn't expect it to decrease.

Well one thing you can be sure of it wasn't due to the oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I find it hard to believe its for CAFE only...


CAFE/MPG and emissions

If Toyota (or anyone) achieves measured improvements in these areas on EPA cycles, then isn't that what makes it into the manual as the only recommended, preferred grade to use, no exceptions? To recommend anything but the tested lubricant grade, they would be opening themselves up for liability issues for any real world variances, whereas with one recommendation, they could easily point to the consumer and say "but were you running the correct oil?".

Some other world markets are following on the path of low vis oils, and I'm just curious how tightly it coincides with new emissions laws being enacted in such places?
 
Both US and EU are pushing for higher MPGs in cars. Australia isn't so it tends toward recommending __W-40 oils.

BTW Pep Boys charges 20-25 dollars for my changes (I bring my own oil).
 
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NAPA has their 0w-20 synthetic with a filter for $20. Stock up when their is a deal. Usually the parts stores with have a synthetic 0w-20 and a filter for $32-36.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Rolla07, you're not up to speed on the subject matter.

ultra high VI 0W-20 was developed first for the unique demands of hybrid engines. That's lots of cold starts with immediate high torque demands of the engine. The oil became available back in 2009.
TGMO 0W-20 is a good 35% lighter than a typical 5W-20 at room temp's and progressively more so at lower temp's. And yes there is a fuel economy savings with TGMO 0W-20 vs a 5W-20.
Due to the superiority of this new lubricant it was eventually spec'd across the entire Toyota/Lexus range and back-spec'd many years for some models.


I'm not sure the Toyota hybrid engines have such a "unique" demands. This is an owner's manual for a 2014 Prius in Nicaragua, and I'm sure it's similar in many other places around the world outside of NA.

BTW, there is no specific recommendation for 0w20 on this one, where I have seen OM for other Toyota (corolla and Rav4 for some engines) here where they show all the grades that can be used but recommend a specific one, usually 5w30.

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Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
In Florida your car will run just fine on synthetic 5w20, but if you don't have receipts "if" you need a warranty repair on your engine, then your out of luck. Warranties are very important IMHO, but honestly the car will run fine on 5w20 just fine.


If eddie used any API certified engine oil for gasoline engines he would not likely be out of any luck. Any service manager worth his weight in salt would recommend any engine work covered under warranty.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
In Florida your car will run just fine on synthetic 5w20, but if you don't have receipts "if" you need a warranty repair on your engine, then your out of luck. Warranties are very important IMHO, but honestly the car will run fine on 5w20 just fine.


If eddie used any API certified engine oil for gasoline engines he would not likely be out of any luck. Any service manager worth his weight in salt would recommend any engine work covered under warranty.


But if you don't have receipts for oil changes, the service manager would have a hard time justifying the repair. The manufacturer pays the dealer well for warranty repairs, but in an engine repair the first thing the manufacturer asks for is maintenance records. If there are no maintenance records with receipts if DIY, no service manager worth his weight in salt will touch that engine as he knows the manufacturer can charge him back.
 
Ed again:
I do my own oil changes but, I'm talking about all the people who depend on others and dealer to do the oil changes. There are lots of people who can't do it themselves and then get stuck for the upcharge for the 0w20 oil change. That would include my parents, students and elderly.
 
I have never had a service manager ask me for a maintenance record with 11 service visits for my vehicles. Either I have had very "nice" service managers or there has to be some very obvious owner neglect before a service manager will ask for maintenance records.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
I have never had a service manager ask me for a maintenance record with 11 service visits for my vehicles. Either I have had very "nice" service managers or there has to be some very obvious owner neglect before a service manager will ask for maintenance records.


Have your visits been for engine malfunction?

Believe me if your vehicle comes into the dealer on a tow truck because of engine malfunction under warranty, you want to have your receipts.
 
I've had 2 engines replaced under warranty and was not asked to provide any receipts or maintenance records.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Lumberjacks1
I put tgmo 0w/20 in my 2007 Honda Accord 1,000 miles ago. Mileage went from 29-30mpg to 26-27mpg. I didn't expect a huge increase in mileage, but I surely didn't expect it to decrease.

Well one thing you can be sure of it wasn't due to the oil.
It's the only variable that changed.
 
Originally Posted By: Lumberjacks1
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Lumberjacks1
I put tgmo 0w/20 in my 2007 Honda Accord 1,000 miles ago. Mileage went from 29-30mpg to 26-27mpg. I didn't expect a huge increase in mileage, but I surely didn't expect it to decrease.

Well one thing you can be sure of it wasn't due to the oil.
It's the only variable that changed.


Is it too late in the season blame winter fuel? I'm not doubting your mileage, Lumberjack, but a 10% decrease is a serious hit and I just don't see how it can be blamed entirely on the oil

It happened that fast? One fill up to the next or a series of fill ups?
 
Originally Posted By: zeuloa
Originally Posted By: dave1251
I have never had a service manager ask me for a maintenance record with 11 service visits for my vehicles. Either I have had very "nice" service managers or there has to be some very obvious owner neglect before a service manager will ask for maintenance records.


Have your visits been for engine malfunction?

Believe me if your vehicle comes into the dealer on a tow truck because of engine malfunction under warranty, you want to have your receipts.


I do not believe you.
 
Originally Posted By: sir1900
Although I haven't checked recently, It may be safe to assume the $5.65/L is what your local dealer is willing to charge for it. Here in this neck of the woods, it's north of $7/L (still cheaper than PP and M1 at Walmart though).

If the dealer is charging too much (one never knows with Taylor dealerships; they were good with Audi fluids but bad with Audi parts), go to SOPUS or Imperial Oil or Petro-Canada. WM and CT can pound sand with their huge markup.
 
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I find it hard to believe its for CAFE only...

I wouldn't say "CAFE only" but as CATERHAM points out, there are fuel economy benefits. Remember that Canadian and American fuel economy testing includes cold starts. If it were just running just at operating temperatures, the automakers would saddle us all with monogrades, then we'd have something else to complain about.
 
Originally Posted By: Eddie
My new 2014 vehicle states the recommended/preferred oil is a 0w20. In reviewing the available oils from several major oil manufactures (Pennzoil & Mobil), I find that only the higher cost synthetic are available in that weight.


0W20 may be preferred, but I'll bet that 5w20 Dino will fulfill the warranty requirements. Find the fine print and tell us what it says, please.
 
Originally Posted By: Finz
Originally Posted By: Lumberjacks1
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Lumberjacks1
I put tgmo 0w/20 in my 2007 Honda Accord 1,000 miles ago. Mileage went from 29-30mpg to 26-27mpg. I didn't expect a huge increase in mileage, but I surely didn't expect it to decrease.

Well one thing you can be sure of it wasn't due to the oil.
It's the only variable that changed.


Is it too late in the season blame winter fuel? I'm not doubting your mileage, Lumberjack, but a 10% decrease is a serious hit and I just don't see how it can be blamed entirely on the oil

It happened that fast? One fill up to the next or a series of fill ups?
It happened immediately. Changed the oil on a Sunday and had a full tank of gas. The 2nd tank even dropped down to 24.5ish, but I did have some low tire pressure. I did try fueling at a different station and the mileage was 26.8mpg. I've never noticed a dip in "winter" mileage until the temps are consistently 20 degrees or colder.
 
Given the cost of an oil change with any syn oil versus the cost of the fuel used over an OCI as well as the allocable depreciation expense, the marginal cost of a 0W-20 just doesn't strike me as that big of a deal. The average driver might well make up most of the marginal cost in fuel savings alone.
For those of us who do our own oil changes, it isn't any kind of an issue.
 
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