My new 2014 vehicle states the recommended/preferred oil is a 0w20. In reviewing the available oils from several major oil manufactures (Pennzoil & Mobil), I find that only the higher cost synthetic are available in that weight. However; the manufacture still recommends a 5,000 mile OCI for my type of driving. That will be a considerable increase in dollars, especially for people who take the vehicles to dealers and want to keep their vehicle under warranty. I do my own OCs now but, in the future. This seems counter productive for drivers. Ed
0w20 long term cost
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I would guess that as 0W/x oils become more popular and/or required, that synthetic oil will be offered in bulk. At the dealership where I previously worked, we could by Motorcraft full synthetic bulk for $4/qt. Even if we marked it up $2/qt, that would be more profit than what we were making on our bulk conventional oil and we could offer a full synthetic oil change for $40-$45. Another dealership chain in the region only offers full synthetic bulk oil changes for $39.99.
Just another factor to consider when auto shopping.
M1 0w20 at Walmart, the 5+ quart jug is always less than $25
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
M1 0w20 at Walmart, the 5+ quart jug is always less than $25
Too late to edit, but checked my local price again and its $22.47 for any jug of M1 except EP. That's about $4.50 a quart.
You can't really get cheaper than that.
M1 0w20 at Walmart, the 5+ quart jug is always less than $25
Too late to edit, but checked my local price again and its $22.47 for any jug of M1 except EP. That's about $4.50 a quart.
You can't really get cheaper than that.
A lot of new cars use OLMs, these can call for oil changes as high as 8500 miles.
It's all about responsibility. If you want a new car then be responsible enough to maintain the warranty using what's required for oil. I honestly think its hilarious that people love the new car they've just bought for over $35,000 but complain about the cost of an oil change. Not that that is what you are doing but tons of people do this and then complain about every maintenance aspect required to maintain the car.
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Originally Posted By: Roob
It's all about responsibility. If you want a new car then be responsible enough to maintain the warranty using what's required for oil. I honestly think its hilarious that people love the new car they've just bought for over $35,000 but complain about the cost of an oil change. Not that that is what you are doing but tons of people do this and then complain about every maintenance aspect required to maintain the car.
I'll counter that argument by asking what is the justification for a 0W requirement versus a 5W especially in certain applications?
For example, the 2010 Lexus RX 350 requires 5W20 every 5000 miles. The 2011s require 0W20 every 5000 miles. The engines are identical.
Is it CAFE? Is it to increase the bottom line of dealerships? In the US, the added cost is negligible. In Canada, the cost nearly doubles (conventional vs synthetic). Net benefit to the owner = none.
It's all about responsibility. If you want a new car then be responsible enough to maintain the warranty using what's required for oil. I honestly think its hilarious that people love the new car they've just bought for over $35,000 but complain about the cost of an oil change. Not that that is what you are doing but tons of people do this and then complain about every maintenance aspect required to maintain the car.
I'll counter that argument by asking what is the justification for a 0W requirement versus a 5W especially in certain applications?
For example, the 2010 Lexus RX 350 requires 5W20 every 5000 miles. The 2011s require 0W20 every 5000 miles. The engines are identical.
Is it CAFE? Is it to increase the bottom line of dealerships? In the US, the added cost is negligible. In Canada, the cost nearly doubles (conventional vs synthetic). Net benefit to the owner = none.
Originally Posted By: sir1900
Originally Posted By: Roob
It's all about responsibility. If you want a new car then be responsible enough to maintain the warranty using what's required for oil. I honestly think its hilarious that people love the new car they've just bought for over $35,000 but complain about the cost of an oil change. Not that that is what you are doing but tons of people do this and then complain about every maintenance aspect required to maintain the car.
I'll counter that argument by asking what is the justification for a 0W requirement versus a 5W especially in certain applications?
For example, the 2010 Lexus RX 350 requires 5W20 every 5000 miles. The 2011s require 0W20 every 5000 miles. The engines are identical.
Is it CAFE? Is it to increase the bottom line of dealerships? In the US, the added cost is negligible. In Canada, the cost nearly doubles (conventional vs synthetic). Net benefit to the owner = none.
Both the 2010 and 2011 MY RX350s are spec'd for 0W-20. See Lexus chart below:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457090
TGMO 0W-20 only costs $5.65/L which is one of the best synthetic motor oil bargains in Canada. So you don't have much to complain about.
Originally Posted By: Roob
It's all about responsibility. If you want a new car then be responsible enough to maintain the warranty using what's required for oil. I honestly think its hilarious that people love the new car they've just bought for over $35,000 but complain about the cost of an oil change. Not that that is what you are doing but tons of people do this and then complain about every maintenance aspect required to maintain the car.
I'll counter that argument by asking what is the justification for a 0W requirement versus a 5W especially in certain applications?
For example, the 2010 Lexus RX 350 requires 5W20 every 5000 miles. The 2011s require 0W20 every 5000 miles. The engines are identical.
Is it CAFE? Is it to increase the bottom line of dealerships? In the US, the added cost is negligible. In Canada, the cost nearly doubles (conventional vs synthetic). Net benefit to the owner = none.
Both the 2010 and 2011 MY RX350s are spec'd for 0W-20. See Lexus chart below:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457090
TGMO 0W-20 only costs $5.65/L which is one of the best synthetic motor oil bargains in Canada. So you don't have much to complain about.
In Florida your car will run just fine on synthetic 5w20, but if you don't have receipts "if" you need a warranty repair on your engine, then your out of luck. Warranties are very important IMHO, but honestly the car will run fine on 5w20 just fine.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: sir1900
Originally Posted By: Roob
It's all about responsibility. If you want a new car then be responsible enough to maintain the warranty using what's required for oil. I honestly think its hilarious that people love the new car they've just bought for over $35,000 but complain about the cost of an oil change. Not that that is what you are doing but tons of people do this and then complain about every maintenance aspect required to maintain the car.
I'll counter that argument by asking what is the justification for a 0W requirement versus a 5W especially in certain applications?
For example, the 2010 Lexus RX 350 requires 5W20 every 5000 miles. The 2011s require 0W20 every 5000 miles. The engines are identical.
Is it CAFE? Is it to increase the bottom line of dealerships? In the US, the added cost is negligible. In Canada, the cost nearly doubles (conventional vs synthetic). Net benefit to the owner = none.
Both the 2010 and 2011 MY RX350s are spec'd for 0W-20. See Lexus chart below:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457090
TGMO 0W-20 only costs $5.65/L which is one of the best synthetic motor oil bargains in Canada. So you don't have much to complain about.
I stand corrected on the 2010 vs 2011. I know not all 2GR-FE engines in the RX is spec'd for 0W20. My FIL's 2008 is spec'd for 5W30 though we switch back-and-forth between 5W20 and 0W20.
Although I haven't checked recently, It may be safe to assume the $5.65/L is what your local dealer is willing to charge for it. Here in this neck of the woods, it's north of $7/L (still cheaper than PP and M1 at Walmart though).
Unless you DIY, a 6.4 qt oil change for the 2GR-FE at the dealer here is around $60 for conventional, $90 for synthetic.
I visit the US 2-3 times per year so most of the oil in my stash is bought there. This past spring, I picked up 2 cases of Napa Syn in Colorado for $3.49/qt.
Originally Posted By: sir1900
Originally Posted By: Roob
It's all about responsibility. If you want a new car then be responsible enough to maintain the warranty using what's required for oil. I honestly think its hilarious that people love the new car they've just bought for over $35,000 but complain about the cost of an oil change. Not that that is what you are doing but tons of people do this and then complain about every maintenance aspect required to maintain the car.
I'll counter that argument by asking what is the justification for a 0W requirement versus a 5W especially in certain applications?
For example, the 2010 Lexus RX 350 requires 5W20 every 5000 miles. The 2011s require 0W20 every 5000 miles. The engines are identical.
Is it CAFE? Is it to increase the bottom line of dealerships? In the US, the added cost is negligible. In Canada, the cost nearly doubles (conventional vs synthetic). Net benefit to the owner = none.
Both the 2010 and 2011 MY RX350s are spec'd for 0W-20. See Lexus chart below:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457090
TGMO 0W-20 only costs $5.65/L which is one of the best synthetic motor oil bargains in Canada. So you don't have much to complain about.
I stand corrected on the 2010 vs 2011. I know not all 2GR-FE engines in the RX is spec'd for 0W20. My FIL's 2008 is spec'd for 5W30 though we switch back-and-forth between 5W20 and 0W20.
Although I haven't checked recently, It may be safe to assume the $5.65/L is what your local dealer is willing to charge for it. Here in this neck of the woods, it's north of $7/L (still cheaper than PP and M1 at Walmart though).
Unless you DIY, a 6.4 qt oil change for the 2GR-FE at the dealer here is around $60 for conventional, $90 for synthetic.
I visit the US 2-3 times per year so most of the oil in my stash is bought there. This past spring, I picked up 2 cases of Napa Syn in Colorado for $3.49/qt.
sir1900, I'm surprised Toyota/Lexus dealers are charging that much for TGMO 0W-20 in Regina, I'd shop around a bit. The $5.65/L price is universal in Ontario and out east. It's a bit more in BC at $6.56 according one member.
It's also now being supplied in bulk to dealers and prices as low 4 bucks can be negotiated to have them fill some empty oil jugs up for you.
That said, I'd certainly pay a buck or two premium for preferred TGMO 0W-20 over most other after market 0W-20s and even M1 0W-20 in my climate.
It's also now being supplied in bulk to dealers and prices as low 4 bucks can be negotiated to have them fill some empty oil jugs up for you.
That said, I'd certainly pay a buck or two premium for preferred TGMO 0W-20 over most other after market 0W-20s and even M1 0W-20 in my climate.
The justification on the surface seems to be more purely warranty upkeep as recommended by the manufacturer.
I get that it seems insane that the 2010 rx350 requires 5w and the 2011 0w but that's what the manufacturer specifies in order for the warranty to be maintained. It may not make immediate sense if they are the same engine, but that's what they specify and a number of items produce that specification. People are always free to choose to put in a different weight and risk voiding the warranty.
I agree somewhat about the cost in Canada from conventional to synthetic but not in all cases.
Pennzoil, QSUD and M1 at regular prices are in the $45-60 range here for a 5ltre jug, but one if not the best 0w20 oils available here is TGMO. It's $5-5.50 a litre. It's readily available at the Toyota/Lexus dealers and they will even fill a jug if you bring one in. So really if you had to use 0w20 the cost isn't that bad at all if you know where to look.
Even with an rx350 you are looking at under $40 for a full synthetic oil change with tax if you did it yourself.
Around here you can bring a Lexus into the Toyota quick lube drive thru and get TGMO and filter for under $60. It's tough to complain when the manufacture of your car tells you to use 0w20 and yet also produces one of the best 0w20's at a low cost to you.....
Lastly I would say that it is CAFE that is responsible. Fuel economy goes hand in hand with resource preservation
and environmental responsibility(green) is a massive driver in any energy related field.
I get that it seems insane that the 2010 rx350 requires 5w and the 2011 0w but that's what the manufacturer specifies in order for the warranty to be maintained. It may not make immediate sense if they are the same engine, but that's what they specify and a number of items produce that specification. People are always free to choose to put in a different weight and risk voiding the warranty.
I agree somewhat about the cost in Canada from conventional to synthetic but not in all cases.
Pennzoil, QSUD and M1 at regular prices are in the $45-60 range here for a 5ltre jug, but one if not the best 0w20 oils available here is TGMO. It's $5-5.50 a litre. It's readily available at the Toyota/Lexus dealers and they will even fill a jug if you bring one in. So really if you had to use 0w20 the cost isn't that bad at all if you know where to look.
Even with an rx350 you are looking at under $40 for a full synthetic oil change with tax if you did it yourself.
Around here you can bring a Lexus into the Toyota quick lube drive thru and get TGMO and filter for under $60. It's tough to complain when the manufacture of your car tells you to use 0w20 and yet also produces one of the best 0w20's at a low cost to you.....
Lastly I would say that it is CAFE that is responsible. Fuel economy goes hand in hand with resource preservation
and environmental responsibility(green) is a massive driver in any energy related field.
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Originally Posted By: Roob
The justification on the surface seems to be more purely warranty upkeep as recommended by the manufacturer.
I get that it seems insane that the 2010 rx350 requires 5w and the 2011 0w but that's what the manufacturer specifies in order for the warranty to be maintained. It may not make immediate sense if they are the same engine, but that's what they specify and a number of items produce that specification. People are always free to choose to put in a different weight and risk voiding the warranty.
I agree somewhat about the cost in Canada from conventional to synthetic but not in all cases.
Pennzoil, QSUD and M1 at regular prices are in the $45-60 range here for a 5ltre jug, but one if not the best 0w20 oils available here is TGMO. It's $5-5.50 a litre. It's readily available at the Toyota/Lexus dealers and they will even fill a jug if you bring one in. So really if you had to use 0w20 the cost isn't that bad at all if you know where to look.
Even with an rx350 you are looking at under $40 for a full synthetic oil change with tax if you did it yourself.
Around here you can bring a Lexus into the Toyota quick lube drive thru and get TGMO and filter for under $60. It's tough to complain when the manufacture of your car tells you to use 0w20 and yet also produces one of the best 0w20's at a low cost to you.....
Lastly I would say that it is CAFE that is responsible. Fuel economy goes hand in hand with resource preservation
and environmental responsibility(green) is a massive driver in any energy related field.
Has anyone contacted Toyota Canada or USA to find out the reason for 0w20? I wonder if you would get a straight answer as to the logic behind it. I see zero difference between 0w20 and 5w20 in terms of gas mileage though maybe there is a difference on larger engines? I find it hard to believe its for CAFE only...
The justification on the surface seems to be more purely warranty upkeep as recommended by the manufacturer.
I get that it seems insane that the 2010 rx350 requires 5w and the 2011 0w but that's what the manufacturer specifies in order for the warranty to be maintained. It may not make immediate sense if they are the same engine, but that's what they specify and a number of items produce that specification. People are always free to choose to put in a different weight and risk voiding the warranty.
I agree somewhat about the cost in Canada from conventional to synthetic but not in all cases.
Pennzoil, QSUD and M1 at regular prices are in the $45-60 range here for a 5ltre jug, but one if not the best 0w20 oils available here is TGMO. It's $5-5.50 a litre. It's readily available at the Toyota/Lexus dealers and they will even fill a jug if you bring one in. So really if you had to use 0w20 the cost isn't that bad at all if you know where to look.
Even with an rx350 you are looking at under $40 for a full synthetic oil change with tax if you did it yourself.
Around here you can bring a Lexus into the Toyota quick lube drive thru and get TGMO and filter for under $60. It's tough to complain when the manufacture of your car tells you to use 0w20 and yet also produces one of the best 0w20's at a low cost to you.....
Lastly I would say that it is CAFE that is responsible. Fuel economy goes hand in hand with resource preservation
and environmental responsibility(green) is a massive driver in any energy related field.
Has anyone contacted Toyota Canada or USA to find out the reason for 0w20? I wonder if you would get a straight answer as to the logic behind it. I see zero difference between 0w20 and 5w20 in terms of gas mileage though maybe there is a difference on larger engines? I find it hard to believe its for CAFE only...
Rolla07, you're not up to speed on the subject matter.
The ultra high VI 0W-20 was developed first for the unique demands of hybrid engines. That's lots of cold starts with immediate high torque demands of the engine. The oil became available back in 2009.
TGMO 0W-20 is a good 35% lighter than a typical 5W-20 at room temp's and progressively more so at lower temp's. And yes there is a fuel economy savings with TGMO 0W-20 vs a 5W-20.
Due to the superiority of this new lubricant it was eventually spec'd across the entire Toyota/Lexus range and back-spec'd many years for some models.
The ultra high VI 0W-20 was developed first for the unique demands of hybrid engines. That's lots of cold starts with immediate high torque demands of the engine. The oil became available back in 2009.
TGMO 0W-20 is a good 35% lighter than a typical 5W-20 at room temp's and progressively more so at lower temp's. And yes there is a fuel economy savings with TGMO 0W-20 vs a 5W-20.
Due to the superiority of this new lubricant it was eventually spec'd across the entire Toyota/Lexus range and back-spec'd many years for some models.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
sir1900, I'm surprised Toyota/Lexus dealers are charging that much for TGMO 0W-20 in Regina, I'd shop around a bit. The $5.65/L price is universal in Ontario and out east. It's a bit more in BC at $6.56 according one member.
It's also now being supplied in bulk to dealers and prices as low 4 bucks can be negotiated to have them fill some empty oil jugs up for you.
That said, I'd certainly pay a buck or two premium for preferred TGMO 0W-20 over most other after market 0W-20s and even M1 0W-20 in my climate.
Might have to do with lack of dealerships (thus competition) around here. The next closest one is Toyota in Moose Jaw, 40 minutes away.
sir1900, I'm surprised Toyota/Lexus dealers are charging that much for TGMO 0W-20 in Regina, I'd shop around a bit. The $5.65/L price is universal in Ontario and out east. It's a bit more in BC at $6.56 according one member.
It's also now being supplied in bulk to dealers and prices as low 4 bucks can be negotiated to have them fill some empty oil jugs up for you.
That said, I'd certainly pay a buck or two premium for preferred TGMO 0W-20 over most other after market 0W-20s and even M1 0W-20 in my climate.
Might have to do with lack of dealerships (thus competition) around here. The next closest one is Toyota in Moose Jaw, 40 minutes away.
I put tgmo 0w/20 in my 2007 Honda Accord 1,000 miles ago. Mileage went from 29-30mpg to 26-27mpg. I didn't expect a huge increase in mileage, but I surely didn't expect it to decrease.
M1 0W20 in 5 qt jugs, or look for oil change specials and start stashing it.
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