0w20 instead of 5w20 in extreme winters.

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: dblshock
don't be fooled, 0W oil is thinner than 5W or 10W... those are the base grades then VI improvers are added to bring them to the respective full temp hot grades 20 30 40...i thought we all knew this by now.

No, it isn't except at very low temperatures.

 

[dblshock]

like below 60F

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: dblshock
like below 60F

No like -20F and below.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: dblshock
like below 60F

No like -20F and below.


Right around 1600 today … would of paid $100 for 5 minutes of that …

 

[asker123]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: asker123
hmm interesting...I allready upgraded to a bigger size battery . Then I shoul rethink actually. It will be better if I can run single grade oil year round . For sure I won’t like 0w20 in summer . I am biased towards thick oils. I feel that they protect better. wouldn’t 0 w grade be too thin for summer and if you are saying it is not a major factor in start up than why bother......

0W is not a grade and it doesn't make it thin or thick for summer. It is still a 20 grade no matter what the winter (W) rating is. The number before the W is a cold-cranking specification and has no bearing on what the operating viscosity may be.

In summer (and in winter, after starting) 0W-20 and 5W-20 are the same oil. 0W-20 is not thinner than a 5W-20 unless it is well below 0F, and this is when you want it thinner. In fact, with some oils and at some temperatures the 5W-20 may well be thinner than the 0W-20.

You can run 0W-20 all year long if a 20 grade is what you want to run. It will make no difference in the summer. 0W-20 will help you start when it is very cold.


I see...
Indeed I am now thinking , I would just put Mobil1 0w20 EP and call it a year...
car burns some oil too so anyways I add some oil. I do max 8000 kms ( 5000 miles ) every 6 months.
user manual says change oil every 6 months if you dont do 8000 kms but 0w20 Mobil 1 EP should last one year.
now since we have a honda chart that 0w20 is acceptable and due to the fact that I add oil, I think I can do once a year oci..
hopefully won’t screw up the engine.
I would like to keep the car for another 10 years if poosible. its mint.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'd run the 0W20 year round.


This

 

[ARB1977]

Texas heat and 0W20 is what I’m going to use in our CRV with turbo.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted By: nike360baller
You seen the low NOACK of Valvoline Full Syn 5w-20?


You're obviously a troll or a shill. If he's asking about 0W20 because his climate needs it, the oil will never get even close to the temps to make NOACK relevant in the tiniest little bitty amount.


Neither a troll nor a shill. Just a guy from Texas running clearance Idemitsu 0W-20 in a Civic who apparently got himself banned under his former user name.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted By: nike360baller
You seen the low NOACK of Valvoline Full Syn 5w-20?


You're obviously a troll or a shill. If he's asking about 0W20 because his climate needs it, the oil will never get even close to the temps to make NOACK relevant in the tiniest little bitty amount.


Neither a troll nor a shill. Just a guy from Texas running clearance Idemitsu 0W-20 in a Civic who apparently got himself banned under his former user name.


You mean a reincarnate? There are a few here.

 

[53' Stude]

Yeah its GHT is who it is

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: car51
Yeah its GHT is who it is

Busted. LOL

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted By: asker123
Hi,
moved from Toronto to Winnipeg . Winters here are brutal. sometimes -35 or even -40 deg celcius.
car is 2003 honda accord 160k kms ( 100k miles)
I always put mobil1 5w20.
should I run 0w20 in winters to give extra protection at cold starts?
right now both mobil1 extended performance and advanced fuel economy are on sale in 0w20 weight and price is almost same as my 5w20.
any thoughts?
-35 or -40 does not last for months though.
my user manual says to use 5w20 and it shows a chart which covers range from -30 deg cel to +40 deg celcius.


Picture this. You’re down at Muddy Waters, my favorite resturant down at the Forks in Winnipeg. You and your friends are there for three hours and the cold wind has been blowing with an ambient of -40 C, which is also -40 F for our American friends. You had a few too many beers and decide to leave the car in the parking lot and take a cab home. You get a lift with a friend to pick up the car the next morning. According to ASTM 5293, with a 0W-20 oil and a decent battery, that car will start; no problem.

 

[nap]

At -40C my first choice would not be beer.

 

[cheesepuffs]

Regardless of cold cranking ability, don't 0w-20s require a higher quality base oil than 5w-20? Aren't you likely to have more esters in the 0w and just Group III in the 5w, making 0w the better choice if the two oils cost the same?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: dblshock
don't be fooled, 0W oil is thinner than 5W or 10W... those are the base grades then VI improvers are added to bring them to the respective full temp hot grades 20 30 40...i thought we all knew this by now.


The winter rating is shot for as part of the blending process, which generally involves using a blend of thin bases. But you cannot universally conclude that an oil with a 0w-xx as its winter designation is using a thinner base blend than a 5w-xx.


Let's look at this blending chart and the 0w-20. If we adjust our percentages up to calculate the visc of just the base oil it ends up as 19.98% 4cSt PAO, 80.02% 6cSt PAO. This gives us a PAO base visc blend of 5.55cSt, which puts us right between SAE 12 and SAE 16. So this product, without VII would be a 0w-12.

Now, these two 5w-xx's are base-blended quite differently because the first targets a 30 as the final visc, the 2nd a 40:


The first has a base oil blend that results in a 5.46cSt visc, which would yield a 5w-12, the 2nd results in ~6.6cSt, giving us a 5w-16.

So, now comparing our examples, our non-VII'd 5w-30 is actually lighter without VII than our 0w-20.

If we were using non-synthetic bases, there could be a requirement for an even lower visc, so your 5w-30 or 10w-30 could be an even lighter base blend than those examples from above.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Regardless of cold cranking ability, don't 0w-20s require a higher quality base oil than 5w-20? Aren't you likely to have more esters in the 0w and just Group III in the 5w, making 0w the better choice if the two oils cost the same?


Not neccesarily there are 0w20 syn blends out (Motorcraft 0w20)and many 0w20s use a really light base oil to make the 0w and then prop it up with a ton of VIscosity index improvers. Plus the 0w20 is not held to the same deposit formation prevention testing that am5w20 is.
Assuming a 0w20is better formulated than 5w20 is a false premise and likely is entirely the opposite of the truth.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Regardless of cold cranking ability, don't 0w-20s require a higher quality base oil than 5w-20? Aren't you likely to have more esters in the 0w and just Group III in the 5w, making 0w the better choice if the two oils cost the same?


Not neccesarily there are 0w20 syn blends out (Motorcraft 0w20)and many 0w20s use a really light base oil to make the 0w and then prop it up with a ton of VIscosity index improvers. Plus the 0w20 is not held to the same deposit formation prevention testing that am5w20 is.
Assuming a 0w20is better formulated than 5w20 is a false premise and likely is entirely the opposite of the truth.


M1 EP 0w-20 and AP 0w-20 being the obvious exceptions here, as we have a very good idea that they are leveraging an almost entirely PAO base blend.

 

[cheesepuffs]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Regardless of cold cranking ability, don't 0w-20s require a higher quality base oil than 5w-20? Aren't you likely to have more esters in the 0w and just Group III in the 5w, making 0w the better choice if the two oils cost the same?


Not neccesarily there are 0w20 syn blends out (Motorcraft 0w20)and many 0w20s use a really light base oil to make the 0w and then prop it up with a ton of VIscosity index improvers. Plus the 0w20 is not held to the same deposit formation prevention testing that am5w20 is.
Assuming a 0w20is better formulated than 5w20 is a false premise and likely is entirely the opposite of the truth.


M1 EP 0w-20 and AP 0w-20 being the obvious exceptions here, as we have a very good idea that they are leveraging an almost entirely PAO base blend.


What about GTL basestocks? Is a 0w a "better" quality GTL, or is it all the same?

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Regardless of cold cranking ability, don't 0w-20s require a higher quality base oil than 5w-20? Aren't you likely to have more esters in the 0w and just Group III in the 5w, making 0w the better choice if the two oils cost the same?


Not neccesarily there are 0w20 syn blends out (Motorcraft 0w20)and many 0w20s use a really light base oil to make the 0w and then prop it up with a ton of VIscosity index improvers. Plus the 0w20 is not held to the same deposit formation prevention testing that am5w20 is.
Assuming a 0w20is better formulated than 5w20 is a false premise and likely is entirely the opposite of the truth.


M1 EP 0w-20 and AP 0w-20 being the obvious exceptions here, as we have a very good idea that they are leveraging an almost entirely PAO base blend.


True, they can achieve the cold crank requirements without going to such a light base oil. And in the end the base oil determines what the formulated oil acts like as the viscosity index improvers and pour point depressants are depleted or deposited on the pistons..

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Regardless of cold cranking ability, don't 0w-20s require a higher quality base oil than 5w-20? Aren't you likely to have more esters in the 0w and just Group III in the 5w, making 0w the better choice if the two oils cost the same?


Not neccesarily there are 0w20 syn blends out (Motorcraft 0w20)and many 0w20s use a really light base oil to make the 0w and then prop it up with a ton of VIscosity index improvers. Plus the 0w20 is not held to the same deposit formation prevention testing that am5w20 is.
Assuming a 0w20is better formulated than 5w20 is a false premise and likely is entirely the opposite of the truth.


M1 EP 0w-20 and AP 0w-20 being the obvious exceptions here, as we have a very good idea that they are leveraging an almost entirely PAO base blend.


True, they can achieve the cold crank requirements without going to such a light base oil. And in the end the base oil determines what the formulated oil acts like as the viscosity index improvers and pour point depressants are depleted or deposited on the pistons..