0w20 for heavy driving?

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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I'll add that there's more to it than just saying because of the positive displacement pump there is no difference in startup wear. I'll wait for him to expound on the points he made in the other thread that you're ignoring. He will know what I'm referring to.
Such as? If the same volume of oil is being delivered to engine parts by the PD oil pump, then where's the lack of lubrication?
Such as the engine speed. Lower engine speed during startup due to higher viscosity oils can cause slightly more wear during startup. It's covered in one of the links he posted. It also covers why engines wear more during idle, if I remember correctly.
A computer controlled engine doesn't idle at cold start-up any differently with xW-20 through xW-50.
This.
 
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I'll add that there's more to it than just saying because of the positive displacement pump there is no difference in startup wear. I'll wait for him to expound on the points he made in the other thread that you're ignoring. He will know what I'm referring to.
Such as? If the same volume of oil is being delivered to engine parts by the PD oil pump, then where's the lack of lubrication?
Such as the engine speed. Lower engine speed during startup due to higher viscosity oils can cause slightly more wear during startup. It's covered in one of the links he posted. It also covers why engines wear more during idle, if I remember correctly.
A computer controlled engine doesn't idle at cold start-up any differently with xW-20 through xW-50.
I wasn't talking about idle at cold startup.
 

ZeeOSix

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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I wasn't talking about idle at cold startup.
Well, if that's the case, then thicker oil protects journal bearings more at idle because it provides more MOFT.
 
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I wasn't talking about idle at cold startup.
Well, if that's the case, then thicker oil protects journal bearings more at idle because it provides more MOFT.
Oh boy. There's more to an engine than just journal bearings. I'll just wait for Gokhan's input.
 

ZeeOSix

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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I wasn't talking about idle at cold startup.
Well, if that's the case, then thicker oil protects journal bearings more at idle because it provides more MOFT.
Oh boy. There's more to an engine than just journal bearings. I'll just wait for Gokhan's input.
He was talking specifically about journal bearings and idle speed. So what other parts in the engine use hydrodynamic lubrication where speed and viscosity matter? Shannow needs to join in too.
 
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Are you not disappointed in yourself to appeal to your view of authority instead of defending your position? Given normal ambient conditions, let's say Tomorrow morning it will be 57-60 where I am, I have 10w30 in the Tacoma. When I crank it up to go to work do you think the oil is going to take longer to reach the top end, the oil squirters and the chain tensioner than if I had 0w20 in it? If so please explain how you reached that conclusion.
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I wasn't talking about idle at cold startup.
Well, if that's the case, then thicker oil protects journal bearings more at idle because it provides more MOFT.
Oh boy. There's more to an engine than just journal bearings. I'll just wait for Gokhan's input.
 

ZeeOSix

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What likely causes the most start-up engine wear is an oil filter with a leaky ADBV that causes oil galleries in the oiling system to drain out when the engine sits overnight. The whole purpose of the filter ADBV is to ensure near instant oil pressure and oil flow to all parts of the oiling system.
 
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Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Jackson_Slugger
What countries would we be talking about in an English language manual other than the USA or Canada?
Mexico 🇲🇽 according to the manual. Probably the reason is the high cost of synthetic oil there. Therefore, they recommend conventional oil (5W-30).
This is what I've been told in the past by a contact of mine. Economical reasons and availability in many other countries. It's just not PC for corporations to come out and say.
That's exactly how it is! Someone did a Walmart oil survey in Mexico a while back. It turns out true dino Group I oils are still the most popular oils there. They have phased out true dino Group I oils in the US a long time ago. You can make PCMO (not HDEO) 15W-40, 20W-50, and 25W-50 from Group I base oil. That's because you can satisfy the CCS (cold-cranking viscosity) of these viscosity grades at the API's 15% upper Noack limit with a Group I base oil. You would need Group II for a HDEO 15W-40 though because of the 13% Noack limit for an HDEO. These are the oil prices in Mexico: ---------------- Group I (15W, 20W, and 25W base oils and PCMO only) Super Tech 25W-50 Group I dino: 43 ₱ Super Tech 20W-50 Group I dino: 49 ₱ Super Tech 15W-40 Group I dino PCMO (not HDEO): 49 ₱ Castrol Magnetec 20W-50 Group I dino: 49 ₱ ---------------- Group II (minimally required for 5W base oils) Mobil Super 5W-30 Group II: 95 ₱ Castrol GTX 20W-50 Group II: 99 ₱ ---------------- Group III (minimally required for 0W base oils) Mobil 1 5W-30 Group III synthetic: 209 ₱ ---------------- You get the picture. Most people there use thick Group I oils, which is half the price of conventional Group II oils sold in US. If they upgrade to a conventional Group II 5W-30, which cannot be Group I because the base oil is too thin to satisfy the 15% Noack limit, they pay twice the money, which is already a luxury. If they upgraded to a synthetic such as a 0W-20, they would have to pay four times the money, and they don't do that. That's exactly why the Mazda manual doesn't bother recommending 0W-20 for Mexico because it's not practical for economic reasons. Cancun, Mexico Walmart oil selection and prices
 
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the op is from canada so 0w is good for him,if u can get a hold of 0w30 u have a win win even tho as mentioned a good soild brand 20w will be more than fine. if u can get a RL 0w20 go for it.
 

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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Jackson_Slugger
What countries would we be talking about in an English language manual other than the USA or Canada?
Mexico 🇲🇽 according to the manual. Probably the reason is the high cost of synthetic oil there. Therefore, they recommend conventional oil (5W-30).
This is what I've been told in the past by a contact of mine. Economical reasons and availability in many other countries. It's just not PC for corporations to come out and say.
That's exactly how it is!
While that may be true for Mexico (I don't know myself having not visited there), it's certainly not true for Australia where most people would run a 5W30 or 0W40 full synthetic at a very similar price to a 0W20 synthetic. I would suggest the same would be true for much of Europe. I'm not a big believer of the "price defence" of why people outside North America don't run 0W20.
 
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
What likely causes the most start-up engine wear is an oil filter with a leaky ADBV that causes oil galleries in the oiling system to drain out when the engine sits overnight. The whole purpose of the filter ADBV is to ensure near instant oil pressure and oil flow to all parts of the oiling system.
Yeah, having a fully functional ADBV is absolutely critical to engine life, yet according to prevailing folk wisdom elsewhere in BitOG, (partially) pre-filling a new filter is a total waste of time because sufficient residual oil is left in bearings, etc. That's amusing!
 
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Does makes the poison. A once in 5 to 10 thousand mile event compared to an every cold start event means a much different outcome. Personally I only change the filter at 10 k even if I change the oil at 5 k. I have canister filters and skid plates to deal with, needing to be removed to remove oil filter, so that motivates me more than anything else to not mess with a filter more often than absolutely nesccesary.
Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
What likely causes the most start-up engine wear is an oil filter with a leaky ADBV that causes oil galleries in the oiling system to drain out when the engine sits overnight. The whole purpose of the filter ADBV is to ensure near instant oil pressure and oil flow to all parts of the oiling system.
Yeah, having a fully functional ADBV is absolutely critical to engine life, yet according to prevailing folk wisdom elsewhere in BitOG, (partially) pre-filling a new filter is a total waste of time because sufficient residual oil is left in bearings, etc. That's amusing!
 
Last edited:
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Does makes the poison. A once in 5 to 10 thousand mile event compared to an every cold start event means a much different outcome. Personally I only change the filter at 10 k even if I change the oil at 5 k. I have canister filters and skid plates to deal with, needing to be removed to remove oil filter, so that motivates me more than anything else to not mess with a filter more often than absolutely nesccesary.
Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
What likely causes the most start-up engine wear is an oil filter with a leaky ADBV that causes oil galleries in the oiling system to drain out when the engine sits overnight. The whole purpose of the filter ADBV is to ensure near instant oil pressure and oil flow to all parts of the oiling system.
Yeah, having a fully functional ADBV is absolutely critical to engine life, yet according to prevailing folk wisdom elsewhere in BitOG, (partially) pre-filling a new filter is a total waste of time because sufficient residual oil is left in bearings, etc. That's amusing!
Cartridge filters lack an ADBV allowing all the oil to drain from the engine after shutdown. Top mounted cartridge filters are empty within about 30 minutes.
 

ZeeOSix

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Cartridge filters lack an ADBV allowing all the oil to drain from the engine after shutdown. Top mounted cartridge filters are empty within about 30 minutes.
The filter housing should have some kind of ADBV (check valve) built-in to the engine housing. Maybe some don't, but many do
 

Jackson_Slugger

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So why is 0W-20 specified for US and Canada only - and 5W-30 for everywhere else in the world?
Everywhere else? Like Mexico? They still use SM conventional 5W-30 as the most prevalent oil and the only one that can be gotten at a reasonably affordable price for most people. Oils like Mobil 1 0W-20 EP are prohibitively expensive and are hard to find so it's not always an apples-to-apples comparison. My Ford's 2.0L is virtually the same engine and it does great on 0W-20 and if I didn't have a basement full of oils bought on sale, I'd probably just use M1 EP 0W-20 year round as it's been shown to be pretty much equivalent to a synthetic SAE20W oil and is just fine in a 160-ish HP engine in the typical North American climate that is properly maintained with a good cooling system no matter how much of a "badass" "baby driver" one thinks one is...

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Jackson_Slugger

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What likely causes the most start-up engine wear is an oil filter with a leaky ADBV that causes oil galleries in the oiling system to drain out when the engine sits overnight. The whole purpose of the filter ADBV is to ensure near instant oil pressure and oil flow to all parts of the oiling system.
What causes most start-up wear is the acidic byproducts of internal combustion (water content from gasoline) that is dumped into a cold sump and sits there during idle speed until the engine reaches close to op temp. It's mainly an issue on cold weather cold starts...
 

ZeeOSix

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What causes most start-up wear is the acidic byproducts of internal combustion (water content from gasoline) that is dumped into a cold sump and sits there during idle speed until the engine reaches close to op temp. It's mainly an issue on cold weather cold starts...
I don't think a little combustion by-product getting into the sump hurts the oil's ability to lubricate - unless the oil is super diluted from fuel or whatever. Wear from corrosion and from lack of lubrication are different "wear modes". Lack of lubrication is going to cause faster and more wear than anything else going on. Most ring wear is caused by rich start-up conditions for instance due to excess fuel washing some of the oil film off the cylinder walls.
 
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Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
My whole premise is that car makers will spec a thin oil for fuel economy and then they'll have an addendum saying to use a thicker oil for extended high speed driving and racing.
Car makers do not spec thin oils in Europe and Australia grin2
Many do.
 
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I run *gasp* 5w20 conventional or Synblend in my Ram. If you know anything about Texas, we like to speed. I've gone 110+ MPH for hours on the 130 Toll, which is an 85mph posted speed limit (like anybody goes that) in temps over 100F. I've hauled trailers on I35 going 80mph. Wasnt the best on gas but I doubt the oil cared. 5w20 will be fine.
Someone revived some old stuff I see. Getting reacts.

So as an update
Change Ram Hemi 5.7 with Titan XD 5.6 Gas and 5w20 Conventional/Synblend with 0w20 Synblend and that’s the current status.
5k ocis and I don’t burn a drop.
Also my 5.6 runs slightly cooler with an AFE Cai, AFE Headers, and AFE exhaust compared to stock.
 
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