0w20 for 2.4l Turbo?

[hooligan24]

There is a thread going on over at srtforums where someone mentioned they wanted to try 0w20 to get some better MPG's. Would this be a smart thing to do, or with this viscosity be enough to protect against wear and tear?

the motor is a 2.4L DOHC Turbo. Redline is 6200 RPM. Stock power is ~230hp to the wheels. Turbo is oil and coolant cooled. There is an oil to coolant heat exchanger and the stock t-stat is 195. I normally see 195-220 degree oil temps during daily driving and short burst of spirited driving using 0w30.

thoughts?

 

[Throckmorton]

I don't really know the answer, but I imagine it would be okay so long as you don't drive with a lead foot. No towing or drag racing though. I doubt you'll save much fuel though.

 

[hooligan24]

I suggested a UOA after 1k miles to see what is happening. I also mentioned he might be able to see a 1.5 mpg increase if he was changing from a 10w40 to a 0w20. I havent really even started to read up on 20 weights, mainly because I have never even thought twice about running a 20 in my motor. The more I read on this site, the more I see the phrase "todays oils are not the same as before". That is leading me to believe maybe it would be ok to use it, even though the motor is speced for Xw30. I guess I will have to start reading up on 20 weights

 

[KA426]

On a turbo engine, I would go 0W-30, 10W-30 or even 0W-40.

 

[ekpolk]

What does the book say?

 

[mechtech2]

Your present 0-30 at high temps is the same as 0-20 in a normal car.
I would not go thinner.

 

[TurboLuver]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
What does the book say?

The manual "recommends the use of Mobil 1 10W-30" but then there is also an ADDENDUM to the owners manual which "recommends Mobil 1 5W-30". I suspect this was done in order to help meet the 2004 cafe standards.

 

[Gary Allan]

The recommendations are buffered to include the most likely fringe usage. The engine itself has proven quite stout under severe usage in both NA and turbo'd configurations and the NA versions have no trouble existing quite well (even if flogged) on 20 grades. Turbos do add a totally justified paranoia into the mix ..but much of it, imo, is from stuff like VW/AUDI issues that have their own ancillary design issues in terms of lubrication.

I'll point out an obvious thing here. It's kinda oxymoronic (that sounds insulting- not intended as such) to attempt to achieve passive fuel economy gains in a performance oriented engine that, by design, is sacrificing fuel economy for added power when you use it as intended.


BUT, if you're into "managed" things ...and you're willing to test (again, neutralizing real savings in the seeking of knowledge) your oil in some realistic service (driving as you intend to really drive) ...then go for it. One OCI (or probably a dozen) isn't going to grenade your engine. You'll lose the upper marginal buffering that a 30 grade provides.

 

[TeeDub]

Gary,


Do you get paid by the word? ;-)

I think the Dominator 5w-20 would be a safe choice here....

 

[Gary Allan]

Too wordy?? Ya think?

It's only wordy in text form. If we were having a conversation ...it wouldn't seem so bad.

You can't just say that the cat died.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I'll point out an obvious thing here. It's kinda oxymoronic (that sounds insulting- not intended as such) to attempt to achieve passive fuel economy gains in a performance oriented engine that, by design, is sacrificing fuel economy for added power when you use it as intended.

BUT, if you're into "managed" things ...and you're willing to test (again, neutralizing real savings in the seeking of knowledge) your oil in some realistic service (driving as you intend to really drive) ...then go for it.

The only thing that I would run, since I don't have someone custom blending my oil

, is something like Red Line 5w-20 or Amsoil Dominator 5w-20. That's with regular uoa's every 1k miles or so, which kind of defeats the purpose of trying to save money on gas.

OTOH, a lot of Energy Conserving 30 grades will probably shear to a 20 grade anyway.

-Dennis

 

[Gary Allan]

Keep in mind that he's not (allegedly) playing his version of "Fast and Furious" here. He's offering that he drives "normally" with minor spirited bouts of limited duration. While using the RL or Amsoil's Dominator would be sensible high output/heavy usage choices, I don't see his proposed usage as mandating it. While I would surely suggest an Amsoil product where the usage is sensible, I think that those two choices are not in the "intent" of what he's seeking insight on. It would make little sense to use either of those products in any terms of "economy". They make great sense if you're trying to protect engines and release power with maximum safety in mind in the "risk"

He needs (my opinion) to test with an over the counter synth 5w-20 and then see just what occurs under his normal over the counter usage.

I'd also say that a normal OCI/UOA would show him a decent amount of detail ..and I'd really have a hard time seeing a shift from a spec'd 30 grade pushed to some level below 9.25Cst to a 20 grade with a slightly lower peak temp visc as seriously reducing his engine life expectancy under even severe conditions.


Quote:
since I don't have someone custom blending my oil

What are you trying to say here, pal

Keep in mind that there was a "first time" for my leading edge junque~ science (

) and that I just knew that, no matter what, one trip down the chute wasn't going to result in a destructive situation ...or even "SEVERE" in terms of how we judge these things. Now it sorta looks like I'm going to be in for the lifetime fine tuning trip (which I'm very happy to take) ..but no masterpiece was made overnight.

 

[TeeDub]

The HT/HS viscosity of the Dominator 5w-20 is 3.0 Cp @ 150C - I doubt that gains you much fuel efficiency over the Amsoil 0w-30, which should last at least 50% longer in service.

A "thin", fuel efficient 20wt would probably not be safe to use on this App., hence the paradox.

 

[hooligan24]

well, from the thread responses today, nobody really knows for sure what to use. my 2005 manual recommends 5w30 M1 for "spirited" driving. I personally like to use 0w30 in ASL and TSO flavors. Right now I am using PP 10w30 for an A-RX cleaning phase. I use Redline 10w40 for the roadcourse.


One of the SRT Engineers recommended M1 0w40, which is wierd to me since it is not DCX MS6395 approved. by him saying to use 0w40, i think he was just trying to cover all bases since it wil work for 99% of owners. My feelings are that there has got to be the one right oil for the perticular climate, driving style, modifications, OCI's....ect. just because the engineer stated what he did, everyone thinks that is the best of the best to use no matter what. Am I wrong in thinking he is wrong?

some SRT owners are even using 15w50 for daily driving. what do you all think about that decision?

can I link the thread to here, or is that against the site rules?

 

[Gary Allan]

Any oil that's recommended is buffered for the presumed process variables that it will encounter. M1 0w-40 appears to be the preferred 30 grade of choice in the thoroughbred Euro alloy.

Given your road coarse reference, I see no economical aspect to your ownership of this vehicle. The oil changing alone for various specific tasks negates any savings. Now if you said you were going to drive like a Q-tip senior citizen (no offense intended to those who may indeed be Q-tip senior citizens) 10 months out of the year ..and flog the thing on a racing oil ..then i think you would be fine.

..but it would be more for seeing "what if I use this?" type of information than ever saving you a dime in real terms.

As Tee-Dub says, you've in a compound paradox. Even if you do drive in a manner that doesn't challenge a 5w-20 for durability and strength ..just what's to be gained here?

I'd do it just to find out how it holds up. I really wouldn't worry about "harm".

Again, the NA versions of this engine do just fine on a 20 grade ..even when HAMMERED.

 

[Solo2driver]

Originally Posted By: hooligan24

One of the SRT Engineers recommended M1 0w40, which is wierd to me since it is not DCX MS6395 approved. by him saying to use 0w40, i think he was just trying to cover all bases since it wil work for 99% of owners. My feelings are that there has got to be the one right oil for the perticular climate, driving style, modifications, OCI's....ect. just because the engineer stated what he did, everyone thinks that is the best of the best to use no matter what. Am I wrong in thinking he is wrong?


Steve Baumbach? I'll see him on Thursday, and ask....I'll post a response here later that night. "All unofficial, of course"

 

[hooligan24]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Any oil that's recommended is buffered for the presumed process variables that it will encounter. M1 0w-40 appears to be the preferred 30 grade of choice in the thoroughbred Euro alloy.

Given your road coarse reference, I see no economical aspect to your ownership of this vehicle. The oil changing alone for various specific tasks negates any savings. Now if you said you were going to drive like a Q-tip senior citizen (no offense intended to those who may indeed be Q-tip senior citizens) 10 months out of the year ..and flog the thing on a racing oil ..then i think you would be fine.

..but it would be more for seeing "what if I use this?" type of information than ever saving you a dime in real terms.

As Tee-Dub says, you've in a compound paradox. Even if you do drive in a manner that doesn't challenge a 5w-20 for durability and strength ..just what's to be gained here?

I'd do it just to find out how it holds up. I really wouldn't worry about "harm".

Again, the NA versions of this engine do just fine on a 20 grade ..even when HAMMERED.


the 0w20 question wasnt for me....it was another member asking about it, I was just trying to find a good answer for them.

I have already decided what oil brand and viscosity I will be using for this motor for most of its life. When the other member asked about the 0w20 it made me want to find answers and thoughts about the situation.

 

[hooligan24]

Originally Posted By: Solo2driver
Originally Posted By: hooligan24

One of the SRT Engineers recommended M1 0w40, which is wierd to me since it is not DCX MS6395 approved. by him saying to use 0w40, i think he was just trying to cover all bases since it wil work for 99% of owners. My feelings are that there has got to be the one right oil for the perticular climate, driving style, modifications, OCI's....ect. just because the engineer stated what he did, everyone thinks that is the best of the best to use no matter what. Am I wrong in thinking he is wrong?


Steve Baumbach? I'll see him on Thursday, and ask....I'll post a response here later that night. "All unofficial, of course"


His name was Ethan. Known as "dodgetweaker" on srtforums

 

[TurboLuver]

I think if the guy over at the srtforums is that worried about mpg he should get a different car. I get an average of 28.4 mpg in my 04 srt4 and I got that with M1 5W-30, PP 5W-30 M1 TDT 5W-40 and now with M1 0W-40.

Personally I am not sold on the "thin is in" craze, especially when we are talking about forced induction.

 

[Eddie]

I would not venture outside the Manufactures reomendation.