0W-20 vs. 5W-30 - General Motors Warranty Concern

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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: jayg
You like getting responses but you don't realize your troll posts just clutter up an otherwise halfway useful thread.


If everybody just went by the owner's manual and had no doubts about its oil viscosity recommendation, we'd have nothing to talk about here on this board.



This is actually a very good point. The only reason I posed this question is because by my very actions I'm knowingly going against what the manufacturer has recommended. That said, we get right back to the whole "OW-XX weights only exist for the manufactures to satisfy CAFE" thing. I've heard enough negative comments by knowledgeable people to have reasonable doubts about the effectiveness of these "high mileage" grades. I'm sure GM or Ford or whoever is more concerned about hitting their CAFE goals than they are about whether Joe Blow's Sierra lasts him 10 years vs 15 or 20.

I for one am very grateful to be a part of discussions like this with people who may know far more than I do about this. I think all the comments here have validity. At least for me anyway. It's nice to hear what someone in California thinks about these grades as opposed to just Texas or Louisiana folks. I am def learning a lot here which is why I joined.
 
Originally Posted By: Monte32
This is actually a very good point. The only reason I posed this question is because by my very actions I'm knowingly going against what the manufacturer has recommended. That said, we get right back to the whole "OW-XX weights only exist for the manufactures to satisfy CAFE" thing. I've heard enough negative comments by knowledgeable people to have reasonable doubts about the effectiveness of these "high mileage" grades. I'm sure GM or Ford or whoever is more concerned about hitting their CAFE goals than they are about whether Joe Blow's Sierra lasts him 10 years vs 15 or 20.


OK, but that statement shows you had your mind made up already, right?
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
[Out here in California, 10W-30 is very thin 9 months out of the year. I can't get myself to go thinner than that. If I had a truck like the OP's, I'd deprogram the multi-cylinder gadget and run 10W-30.


Then by all means do not use anything thinner, as I know you won't. But your unfounded conclusion that your decision is made on sound technical reasons is incorrect. It's opinion based on feelings - nothing more. Especially when you go on about the 5W being thinner.

I didn't start using 5W-20 in my old Sienna until it reached 100,000 miles, and I ran it until just recently when I switched back to 5W-30. If that engine which was back-specified to the oil can run just fine (and be quieter and easier to start in the winter) then a modern engine certainly can.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Then by all means do not use anything thinner, as I know you won't. But your unfounded conclusion that your decision is made on sound technical reasons is incorrect. It's opinion based on feelings - nothing more. Especially when you go on about the 5W being thinner.

I didn't start using 5W-20 in my old Sienna until it reached 100,000 miles, and I ran it until just recently when I switched back to 5W-30. If that engine which was back-specified to the oil can run just fine (and be quieter and easier to start in the winter) then a modern engine certainly can.


OK then -- from here on out, we'll all start following the owner's manual to the letter. No more discussions about viscosity. We'll just talk about which brand is better. See how far that goes.
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Tech819
So what you're saying is most engines will not make it past 40k miles. That's a big statement that needs proof to back it up.


The point I was trying to make is you could use the 0W-20 during the warranty period like the engineers want you to, but there's a real good possibility that a 30 weight would have given you less engine wear during that time. You're sacrificing your engine so that the corporate auto maker can get their CAFE numbers up.



bingo.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Monte32
This is actually a very good point. The only reason I posed this question is because by my very actions I'm knowingly going against what the manufacturer has recommended. That said, we get right back to the whole "OW-XX weights only exist for the manufactures to satisfy CAFE" thing. I've heard enough negative comments by knowledgeable people to have reasonable doubts about the effectiveness of these "high mileage" grades. I'm sure GM or Ford or whoever is more concerned about hitting their CAFE goals than they are about whether Joe Blow's Sierra lasts him 10 years vs 15 or 20.


OK, but that statement shows you had your mind made up already, right?


Yes I did, but that does not mean I'm not curious about what others may think or may have to add. I'm very open to hear others opinions which is the whole point of this type of forum. People change their minds all the time. As I stated originally, if the 5W-30 is bad for my engine I will change to 0W-20 right away. Admittedly I'll do it grudgingly (since it would be a waste of good oil) but I'll do it nonetheless.
 
once the EPA is dismanteled it will be interesting to see what becomes of CAFE, 0/20 and the auto mfg's.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Then by all means do not use anything thinner, as I know you won't. But your unfounded conclusion that your decision is made on sound technical reasons is incorrect. It's opinion based on feelings - nothing more. Especially when you go on about the 5W being thinner.

I didn't start using 5W-20 in my old Sienna until it reached 100,000 miles, and I ran it until just recently when I switched back to 5W-30. If that engine which was back-specified to the oil can run just fine (and be quieter and easier to start in the winter) then a modern engine certainly can.


OK then -- from here on out, we'll all start following the owner's manual to the letter. No more discussions about viscosity. We'll just talk about which brand is better. See how far that goes.
grin2.gif


No, I won't ..... Merk.
grin.gif

And I never would.
But I would like to understand the reasons/logics behind OEM's oils recommendation .......
as a basis of forming my own decision/final oil selection basing on my own circumstances/priorities ...... not OEM's..... which often times differs.
shocked.gif
 
I can't imagine 5w-30 synthetic Oil would give any reason for concern in South Texas climate in a pushrod v-8 in a half-ton truck
 
Originally Posted By: dblshock
In one sentence @ 24sec. this Mobil gal lays one on CAFE.




After a second look this is laughable, was the engine under load? what was the ambient temp? was the wear actually measured? they seem to suguest a visual only conculsion...after the opening statement they clearly imply this is not optimal.
 
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Does it actually say that in the owner's manual ? I wonder why they didn't include 5W-30 ...

That just shows you how the writers think, I guess. It looks to include legacy wording. Years ago, even when 5w-30 was the sole recommended grade, there was no wording against 10w-30. There was the warning against 10w-40 and 20w-50, with permission given to 0w-30 when it's cold enough. Now, I guess they just threw 10w-30 on the list. The wording, aside from adding 10w-30, looks identical to what GM has used for many, many years.

Oh, and Merk, you do follow the manual to the letter. When is the last time you put anything in your Buick aside from an ILSAC 10w-30?
 
Originally Posted By: barkingspider
Keep the 5w30 in it for normal oci. I would have no problem using 5 or 10w 30 if it was my truck, but u can Switch back to 0w20 to satisfy warranty


This answer is found in the first page in the 9th post of the thread, see copy above.

No more confusion.

If you are looking for BITOG to override the owners manual then you are doing this as at your risk during the warranty period despite it being very very low if any at all.
 
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Yeah, that Mobil vid, right out of the gate my thought was "sure, it would last that long. It is only running in an controlled environment, with no appreciable load. Not having to deal with stop and go city traffic every day in every thing from temps well over 100F to sub zero stuff." Yet another slick marketing ad that kisses up to the CAFE stuff and assumes the general public are idiots. I know this fascination with 0wXX is neat, but I won't jump on board. Only if I lived in the Alaskan Interior. Even if a OEM spec'd a 0w20, and I wanted to stick close to their recommendation, I would probably use a 5w20. After all those years of watching my dad use straight 30w oils, only succumbing to 10w30 later in life, and all of his vehicles went well beyond 200,000 miles. And I don't ever recall, from my childhood in the 50's and 60's on up the when he passed away in 2003 that he ever had an engine failure in any vehicle. Even their Honda Odyssey went to 300,000 miles and still was in pretty good shape when my mom traded it off several years ago. That engine had never been opened up for a repair and still ran good.
 
Ok, I saw varied response about the engine being just updated with DI, to it being extensively updated. But no one mentioned about if the actual parts that need oil, where a 5w30 would ruin the engine. The one thing I saw that is different is the oil pump. The actual question should be is 5 weight winter oil too thick for that pump?
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Yeah, that Mobil vid, right out of the gate my thought was "sure, it would last that long. It is only running in an controlled environment, with no appreciable load. Not having to deal with stop and go city traffic every day in every thing from temps well over 100F to sub zero stuff." Yet another slick marketing ad that kisses up to the CAFE stuff and assumes the general public are idiots. I know this fascination with 0wXX is neat, but I won't jump on board. Only if I lived in the Alaskan Interior. Even if a OEM spec'd a 0w20, and I wanted to stick close to their recommendation, I would probably use a 5w20. After all those years of watching my dad use straight 30w oils, only succumbing to 10w30 later in life, and all of his vehicles went well beyond 200,000 miles. And I don't ever recall, from my childhood in the 50's and 60's on up the when he passed away in 2003 that he ever had an engine failure in any vehicle. Even their Honda Odyssey went to 300,000 miles and still was in pretty good shape when my mom traded it off several years ago. That engine had never been opened up for a repair and still ran good.


I agree. It seems all the oil companies seem to cherry pick, smart marketing. Still XOM seems to be one of the best when it comes to their advertising. Some of these oil companies think they're selling oil to complete fools.
 
Originally Posted By: dblshock
Originally Posted By: dblshock
In one sentence @ 24sec. this Mobil gal lays one on CAFE.




After a second look this is laughable, was the engine under load? what was the ambient temp? was the wear actually measured? they seem to suguest a visual only conculsion...after the opening statement they clearly imply this is not optimal.


1) When XM test engines with the long term oil test the engines are placed under various loads and speeds.

2) The test are run outdoors under shelters. This facility is located in Maryland, so the test are performed in various temps.

3) Some items are visually checked, while others are measured, like valve clearance.

Recently I removed the valve cover on my Fusion with 195K at 10K OCIs with M1 0-20AFE. I checked the valve clearance and all were within factory spec. Also the engine was very clean.
 
Originally Posted By: dblshock
once the EPA is dismanteled it will be interesting to see what becomes of CAFE, 0/20 and the auto mfg's.

I used M1 5-20 in 1978 in engines calling for 10-40. CAFE wasn't around then.
 
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