0W-20 Oil Preference: Toyota / Lexus

Joined
Mar 20, 2015
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London ENGLAND
I’m not sure I follow either. Again, an approval is performance based and isn’t tied to country of origin or make. Oxidation resistance, piston cleanliness, reduced wear, resistance to ring sticking or cylinder wear, viscosity retention - these are what define the performance of an oil.

For a low to mid-SAPS oil (which is appropriate for nearly every passenger car), something with ACEA sequence C3 and paired with VW 504 00 is a very good oil. It won’t know it’s in a Japanese car or one from China.

The reason you don’t see approvals for Japanese models is because there aren’t any. At least none that I know of. That in no way makes them inappropriate however.
Approval is based on performance - yes, its not tied to country of origin or make - kind of. The types of technologies used in Euro vehicles is changing differently to US or Asian vehicles, but also in Asian vehicles aimed at the Euro market.
The performance of the oil and the standards it meets is fine, but the way it achieves it can be different. There are significant consequences for using unapproved oils in light duty diesel city cars which are very common in Europe, failed DPFs which are big money to replace. The oils and and their approvals are designed with DPF and GPFs in mind which means certain additives must be used, whereas others cannot be used. We don't need those constraints on a hybrid Toyota. We need moly!

Kidding about the last part, but you see my point.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
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Paramount, California
Approval is based on performance - yes, its not tied to country of origin or make - kind of. The types of technologies used in Euro vehicles is changing differently to US or Asian vehicles, but also in Asian vehicles aimed at the Euro market.
The performance of the oil and the standards it meets is fine, but the way it achieves it can be different. There are significant consequences for using unapproved oils in light duty diesel city cars which are very common in Europe, failed DPFs which are big money to replace. The oils and and their approvals are designed with DPF and GPFs in mind which means certain additives must be used, whereas others cannot be used. We don't need those constraints on a hybrid Toyota. We need moly!

Kidding about the last part, but you see my point.
Moly is not in ILSAC approvals, but Japanese OEMs and blenders like to use high moly content in 0W-20 and and thinner oils (down to 0W-8), hoping that it will boost the fuel economy. ILSAC exempts 0W-20 and thinner oils from TEOST 33C for that reason, as high-moly-content oils universally fail TEOST 33C. The strange thing is that TEOST 33C (and to some extent moly content) is not correlated with any kind of real-life engine or turbocharger deposits in any way, but it was still retained in ILSAC GF-6 after some debate, probably because they didn't have an actual turbocharger-deposit test.
 
Joined
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ACEA A5/B5, A7/B7, C2, C5, and C6 are compatible with ILSAC. ACEA A3/B4, C3, and C4 are not compatible with ILSAC.

ACEA A7/B7 and C6, which are both compatible with ILSAC, are the strictest specs for wear and deposits, not A3/B4, C3, and C4. However, I should note that the uncommon C4 low-SAPS spec is the one with the lowest Noack (11% or less), as they make up for the low TBN with high base-oil quality to meet the OCI length. The other ACEA specs have Noack = 13% or less.

Moreover, there is no 0W-16 or thinner category in ACEA.
To clarify my comments about wear, these are the ASTM D8350 (Sequence IVB, Toyota 2NR-FE) valvetrain-wear limits in ACEA 2022:

A3/B4, A5/B5, C2, C3, C4, and C5: 3.3 mm³
A7/B7 and C6: 2.7 mm³

A7/B7 and C6 are the new, modern-mixed-calcium–magnesium-detergent specs for LSPI protection, with HTHS ~ 3.0–3.1 cP for A7/B7 and HTHS ~ 2.6–2.7 cP for C6.

 
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
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5,660
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VA
TipsyTonio, which do you want to use? I'm betting the Toyota. Just use that and pick it up at the dealership when you get your filter.
I am confident you will sleep much better and you won't be tossed too and fro with your mind flip flopping from one oil change to the next.

And this is not a tongue in cheek satirical comment. Some of us are wired differently. Heck, I might have a short....
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
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22,971
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Upper Midwest
TipsyTonio, which do you want to use? I'm betting the Toyota. Just use that and pick it up at the dealership when you get your filter.
I am confident you will sleep much better and you won't be tossed too and fro with your mind flip flopping from one oil change to the next.

And this is not a tongue in cheek satirical comment. Some of us are wired differently. Heck, I might have a short....
Apparently old Tipsy blew this pop stand the day he joined.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
22
Location
McHenry, IL
I've got a '19 Sequoia, sitting at close to 50K miles right now. I do 5K OCIs and here is what I've found so far.

M1 Full Synthetic 0W-20 - Noisy valvetrain, average gas mileage, seemed to be normal looking when drained at 5K. Have used in warm and cold months with the same noise observation.

QS UD Full Synthetic 0W-20 - Noticeably quieter valvetrain. Was running from spring to summer and regardless of temp, the motor idled much more quietly. Nothing surprising when draining it.

Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic 0W-20 - Currently in the motor now. More quiet than M1, not as quiet as QS. Overall, no noticeable different in gas mileage either. For the price with the rebates, hard to beat IMO.
 
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