0W-20 M1, 2003 Ferrari 575, 3k on oil, 5K total on car

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Sarasota, Florida
Oil analysis for 2003 Ferrari 575 Maranello and 2004 Ford Expedition: The Ferrari was delivered with Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30. At 775 miles on 23 May 2003 the oil was changed to 0W-30 Mobil 1. At 2,250 miles on 14 November 2003 the oil was changed to 0W-20 Mobil 1. With 5,300 miles on the car, and 3,000 mile on this fill of 0W-20 I sent in a sample for analysis. The original oil tested was from a left over bottle from the original Mobil 1 oil cases. So it is of the same age as the oil in the engine. No additional oil was added to the car. The Ford is a few months old. I changed the original oil after 1,200 miles and later took this sample of Pennzoil Multigrade (regular oil) 5W-20 and sent this in for analysis as well. This fill had 1,000 miles on it (total miles on car now - 2,200). __________New __________Ferrari_______Ford____ ______0W-20 Mobil 1 ___With 3,000 Mi __Expedition, 1,000 Mi on the oil ................................................................................................................ Iron__________<1__________11__________10 Chromium _____<1__________<1_________<1 Nickel ________<1___________7__________<1 Aluminum ______3__________10___________5 lead __________<1__________2__________<1 Copper ________<1_________16__________14 Tin ___________<1__________<1 _________<1 Silver ________<.1__________<.1 ________<.1 Titanium ______<1__________<1 _________<1 Silicon ________4___________10__________86 Boron ________247_________220_________101 Sodium _______15__________15__________4 Potassium ____<10_________<10_________<10 Molybdenum __ 164_________141_________437 Phosphorus __1375________ 1353________1306 Zinc ________ 1328________1313________1281 Calcium _____ 3456________3143________2340 Barium ______<10_________<10 _________<10 Magnesium ____53_________154_________14 Antimony _____<30________<30 _________<30 Vanadium _____<1_________<1 __________<1 Fuel %Vol _____0__________3.5__________1.5 Abs Oxid ______?__________48__________3 Abs Nitr _______?__________13__________4 Wtr %vol ______0_________<.1 _________<.1 Vis CS 100C ___9.0________8.1 _________7.3 SAE Grade ____20_________20 __________20 Gly test ______NEG_______NEG _________NEG TBN _________9.87_______not done_____not done Everything was well within limits for each car. Go to this page and download this Excel file to see other peoples results: http://members.rennlist.com/oil/ Here is a description of tests: http://members.rennlist.com/oil/element_analysis_description.htm I did some analysis of the Excel data on 144 automotive oil samples tested. This is as far as I can tell: The average car had 3,750 miles on the oil fill when tested. Most tests were of oil having 2,000 to 5,000 miles on the oil. Range = 87 miles to 16,506, the most was in a 1983 Mercedes 300 TD with over 200,000 miles on it. They used Mobil One 15-50 and it tested normal. 70 tests were of 50 weight oil. Most were Mobil One 15-50, second was Castrol GTX 20W-50, third was Castrol Syntec 5W-50. 17 tests were of 40 weight oil. Most were Mobil One 0W-40. 26 tests were of 30 weight oil. Most were Mobil One 10W-30 then 5W-30. 3 tests were 5W-20 Ford oil in a single MY 2000 Lincoln LS. The first test that was sent in had slightly elevated Al and Si but the next two tests were normal. All samples had around 4,000 miles on them. The total car mileage was over 60,000 miles. Other tests were not of engine oil (transmission, gear) or were not able to be determined. Of the 40 and 50 weight oils none were tested thicker than the original grade but many that failed multiple tests were thinner. The reason was fuel dilution. Normal is up to 5 % but 6 to 8 will decrease your grade by one and 9 to 11 % or more will decrease the viscosity grade by 2 (a 50 weight oil will be thinned to a 30 weight oil). Of the 20 and 30 weight oils that failed tests about a third thickened to the next higher viscosity grade. Only one thinned secondary to fuel dilution. 3 of the vehicles tested had over 200,000 miles. 16 of the vehicles had between 150,000 and 200,000 miles. 7 vehicles had between 90,000 and 140,000 miles. 24 vehicles had between 40,000 and 80,000 miles. The remainder of vehicles had less than 40,000 miles on the clock. aehaas [ January 30, 2005, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
 
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Everson WA - Pacific NW USA
Wow what a treat! Not many Ferrari analysis' here. Fuel looks high, but it's an Italian car [Wink] The wear numbers look OK as you stated...can I assume you don't get out and WFO the Ferrari much? I am digesting your cumulative data. Anything further to be gathered? (I didn't go to the link)
 
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Earth
The Aluminum and Nickel seem kinda high in the Ferrari for such a short run of 3k. I would run M1 0w-40 if it was mine, but nothing seems catastrophic by any means on this run of M1 0w-20. What does the owners manual recommend? Also, what is your driving style? Is this a boulevard crusier(?), and does the Maranello get wound out from time to time on the highway? What are your typical oil temps?
 

AEHaas

Thread starter
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1,440
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Sarasota, Florida
Buster, this is why I sent in the same oil from an unused jar as a control. Even in human blood analysis lab values vary and each lab sends the normal values with the results of the tests. Also, lab reagents may be old, outdated as well. Thus diminishing the accuracy. When I send in oil for the next analysis I will again send in a control from the same original jar. Bobert, the car is still within the break-in period as far as I am concerned. Also the car turns a lot of RPM. Sometimes I drive in 1st or 2nd (of 6) gear and just sit at 8,000 RPM going down the road. Other times I run at 3-4,000 getting ready to gun it. In 1st, 2nd and 3rd one can break the wheels loose by just stepping on the gas. You do not have to pop the clutch (spinning the wheels should not be done unless you have appropriate training / experience as one can lose control in a second). Running around town or on the highway the oil temperature is only 185 F. The car was factory delivered with Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30 but the manual says to use 0W-40 or 5W-40 except in constant, high temperature racing, high load conditions. Then they recommend 10W-60 Racing Shell Helix Ultra. aehaas
 
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NJ
ZDDP is much to high. Some labs tend to report much higher levels of ZDDP then others. My Blackstone Labs report of M1R showed lower amounts then what George Morrison reported. And this sample differs greatly then the other M1 0w-20 10k mile sample. (600P/700Zinc)
 
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SC
quote:
Originally posted by AEHaas: The car was factory delivered with Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30 but the manual says to use 0W-40 or 5W-40 except in constant, high temperature racing, high load conditions. Then they recommend 10W-60 Racing Shell Helix Ultra.
How do you know it came with Helix 5w30? I was under the impression that (excepting the Enzo) facotry fill for all Ferraris was now Helix Ultra 0w40.
 

AEHaas

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Sarasota, Florida
I had a 550 Maranello and initially ran the recommended Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40. I got it for a little over $2 a liter (cheap). I tried M1 0W-30 and the temperatures and pressures went down slightly. When I got my 575 I changed the oil at about 750 miles to 0W-30 and there was no change in the temperature or pressure. I called up Ferrari of North America and they told me the cars are delivered with 5W-30 Helix Ultra. That explained the lack of change in parameters. That is when I decided to try the 0W-20. aehaas
 

AEHaas

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Sarasota, Florida
If an engine with 20 wt. oil always runs at 20 degrees cooler at the same RPM as a 30 wt. oil then wear would be less by temperature alone. As it turns out RPM for RPM the thinner oil would have the same thickness as the thicker oil anyway as the less wt. engine oil runs cooler. My engine runs at 185 F with the 20 wt oil while under the same running conditions the 40 wt. oil ran at about 220 F. The oil pressure is only slightly less now. It was around 80 PSI at 2,000 RPM and is now around 70 - 75 PSI at 2,000 RPM. But I am running 35 F cooler with the 20 wt. oils as compared to the 40 wt. oil. Because the thinner oil is running cooler the film thickness and HTHS are kept at the same level as the thicker oil under the same conditions. And again, having less start-up thickness decreases start-up wear. Since this is where most engine wear occurs should we be studying this area more critically. The oil chemists are still working diligently to get start-up thicknesses minimized. This has been a major concern since day 1. aehaas Other reasons why coolor is better: The SMAC, Under Pressure Oil Aeration Measurement System in Running Engines, Bregent et al: Oil aging, valve train and bearing problems and thermal problems occur with aeration. Below 110 C there is no problem but as one goes up the aeration ratio increases rapidly. (A cooler running engine from a thinner, faster flowing oil may lubricate better for this reason alone ) A New Method of Measuring Aeration and Deaeration of Fluids, Morgan et al: Air in oil causes oxidation, wasted power, higher oil temperatures, loss of lubricity among other adverse effects. Higher RPM increases aeration, so does increasing oil viscosity. [ January 31, 2005, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: AEHaas ]
 
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Ontario Canada
AEHaas. My hot Italian blood started to boil when I read you put 0w20 in that fine piece of Italian machinery. [freaknout] I would never use a 0w20 in any high performance engine. I use 5w40 in my BMW and would use it in the Ferrari. I don't care for better milage. I do care about engine durability. If the specs call for a 40 weight or 30 with a ACEA A3 rating then thats what the engine is designed for. Why put a oil grade thats recommended for a Honda and Ford to lower their mpg? [I dont know]
 
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Mars
I think you need to give it some stick! Instead of running thinner and thinner oils to compensate for the low temperatures, put in some 30 or 40 weight and make its blood boil a bit. I just don't see the point in driving a Ferrari if you are going to trundle along at light throttle openings. High fuel levels can often be due to engines being used hard. I wonder if in this case it is due to the oil never getting warm enough to boil off the contaminants? I don't know the answer to this. I definitely wouldn't be comfortable with a 20 weight. This is especially so with the high fuel levels. The engine is just far too valuable. And what about warranty issues? Stephen
 

Tim

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TX
My first Ferrari report... Can I have some of the used oil to build a shrine? Seriously, thanks for posting. Do Ferrari's always throw a lot of Al? Tim
 
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Once the AutoRX is done in my daughter's Excursion I'm going to put in M1 0W/20. Hope she doesn't drive it like a sports car. [LOL!]
 

AEHaas

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Althought I only drive around town I do Hammer it as possible. Nothing makes me happier than being the first person at a red light. The fuel dilution is what I would expect and I accept it. The Al is average for Ferrari UOA's I have seen, possibly a little low actually. And what about warranty issues? - No concern. aehaas
 

Jay

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Idaho Falls, ID
Nothing in the report shows any wear problem, but it would be good to do a baseline interval with the manufacturer's recommended viscosity just to compare with--once out of the break-in.
 
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AEHaas, it appears that you are more concerned with oil temps in making a viscosity decision rather than ambient temperature. Both need to be taken in to account and balanced out. All viscosities will lubricate just fine. Meaning the 0-20 will work great, however caution must be excercised in temps. over say 15C (as a guess) as this weight was basically designed for extreme cold. The owner's manual points this out with the higher viscosity recommendation for higher stress. What does this mean? That the slightly elevated temps. with thicker viscosities are more than offset by the protection offered by such viscosity and their ensuing film thickness.
 

Patman

Staff member
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Guelph, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. T: AEHaas, it appears that you are more concerned with oil temps in making a viscosity decision rather than ambient temperature. Both need to be taken in to account and balanced out.
I disagree, the temperature of the oil is the main concern, not the ambient temp. If he's seeing 185F oil temps and it's 100F outside, then that car obviously has a good oil cooling setup. So it doesn't matter how hot the outside temp is, if the oil temp is that stable.
 
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799
Location
Washington, DC
quote:
Originally posted by AEHaas: If an engine with 20 wt. oil always runs at 20 degrees cooler at the same RPM as a 30 wt. oil then wear would be less by temperature alone. As it turns out RPM for RPM the thinner oil would have the same thickness as the thicker oil anyway as the less wt. engine oil runs cooler. My engine runs at 185 F with the 20 wt oil while under the same running conditions the 40 wt. oil ran at about 220 F. The oil pressure is only slightly less now. It was around 80 PSI at 2,000 RPM and is now around 70 - 75 PSI at 2,000 RPM. But I am running 35 F cooler with the 20 wt. oils as compared to the 40 wt. oil. Because the thinner oil is running cooler the film thickness and HTHS are kept at the same level as the thicker oil under the same conditions. And again, having less start-up thickness decreases start-up wear. Since this is where most engine wear occurs should we be studying this area more critically. The oil chemists are still working diligently to get start-up thicknesses minimized. This has been a major concern since day 1. aehaas Other reasons why coolor is better: The SMAC, Under Pressure Oil Aeration Measurement System in Running Engines, Bregent et al: Oil aging, valve train and bearing problems and thermal problems occur with aeration. Below 110 C there is no problem but as one goes up the aeration ratio increases rapidly. (A cooler running engine from a thinner, faster flowing oil may lubricate better for this reason alone ) A New Method of Measuring Aeration and Deaeration of Fluids, Morgan et al: Air in oil causes oxidation, wasted power, higher oil temperatures, loss of lubricity among other adverse effects. Higher RPM increases aeration, so does increasing oil viscosity.
Your logic is sound here except for one little problem. The temperature of oil going trough your bearings is much higher then 185F degrees, which is probably your oil pan temp reading. Amazingly your bearing wear is quite low. I would not trust oil that is not A3 rated in high performance engine application like yours. Maybe you will get by but you are riding on very thin margin of safety and IMHO that is just not worth it with this car.
 
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