0W-20 in a BMW?

[Dr. T]

Could very well be. That might take us to an old wives' tale I heard someone say: "I change the oil when the oil level goes down; I never add"

However, I'd hate to be the one who has to use a thicker grade because of premature wear from this blanket of security. There is something to A3 oils however that make them superior to A1...no matter what grade...and 5-20's aren't A3 rated. Hence, you won't be seeing them recommended for high HP BMW, M-B, Ferrari's or Porsche's...

 

[JohnBrowning]

Patman that 1.8L I4 BMW is turning 4000RPM's going 80MPH!! Based on RPM alone that is high speed driveing. It would change things significantly if he was driveing along at 80MPH in double over drive at 1200-1500 RPM's.

I also find it hypocritical that you defend the use of such thin oils in all kinds of applications even though you will not run a Xw20 or 5W20 in your LT1! IF I will not use it in my vechile why should I tell you to put it in yours!!!

That BMW 4 clinder design is much older then your LT1! We also have seen what wounderfull effects two different 20weight elixars of death have had on TooSLicks Tacoma! I know I was not impressed!

If BMW says it is ok to use 0W20 from -30C-30C and this match's you temp range go for it. I would not expect any significant jump in fuel millage. If you want to save money on gas buy cheaper gas or drive less. Walking, car pooling, and mass transit are far better ways to save gas then switching from XW30 to XW20. It is almost a funny as watching a guy order 10 cheesburgers, and apple pie and some frys for himself and then insisting on a diet Coke because he is watching his figure!

 

[moribundman]

quote:

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Patman that 1.8L I4 BMW is turning 4000RPM's going 80MPH!! Based on RPM alone that is high speed driveing.

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Uh, no...

Sorry, must be my past. I used to drive my VW and Opel for extended periods (30 minutes and up) with over 6000 RPM on the Autobahn. Under 3k RPM is low RPM, 3-5k is medium, and over 5k is high RPM. That's based on my experience with 1.6, 1.8, and 2.0 European four bangers and my current 2.8 V6. By the way, my Audi engine loves to be run at over 6k RPM! That would be in second gear, due to those blasted speed limits.

[ January 07, 2004, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:

I also find it hypocritical that you defend the use of such thin oils in all kinds of applications even though you will not run a Xw20 or 5W20 in your LT1! IF I will not use it in my vechile why should I tell you to put it in yours!!!

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It's not being hypocritical, because in this case the person is wanting to get the most MPG he can, so obviously he's not going to be driving it too hard, in which case he'll be just fine with a thin oil, even if he's turning 4000rpm at 80mph, the engine won't be working the oil that hard if he's at a steady speed and not going full throttle too often.

I defend the thin oils in the engines which can take advantage of them, which we've seen on here through UOAs. In my own case, with my LT1, I know for a fact that it does not like the thinner oils, as I've seen higher engine wear with the thinner 30wts, and am getting great wear with GC which is a thicker 30wt. I've also seen good UOAs with LT1s running thin to mid 40wts too. So I know for a fact that the LT1 engine will not do well with a 5w20.

Another fact is that I see high oil temps in my LT1, and I also drive it hard. These two things make a thin oil not a good idea. But for someone driving conservatively, who has more normal oil temps, and is putting it in an engine which has tighter clearances than my LT1, the thin oils are not going to be a problem.

Today's thread on all the cars which have gone over 150k is a real eye opener. Just look at how many of them have gotten great mileage, even using dino oils! That actually surprised me a lot, I figured we'd see more synthetic oil users in there. Seeing a dino 5w30 able to achieve 200k or more out of some engines is something I didn't think happened too often, considering most 5w30s turn into 5w20s very quickly, and would also sludge up the engine easier too.

I think that thread has changed a lot of people's views on oils as well. Thick oils do have their place, but if you look at that thread as a whole, most of the people who posted in there were running 30wts!

 

[buster]

quote:

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I think that thread has changed a lot of people's views on oils as well. Thick oils do have their place, but if you look at that thread as a whole, most of the people who posted in there were running 30wts!

---

Couldn't agree more. I was shocked, although I don't know why bc I am one of the ones who got long engine life on dinos. But some of the cars where impressive. I think I might start being less picky with UOA's.

John and Dr. T, in all fairness, why do you guys seem to ignore Molekule's, Terry's and www.speedtalk.com's comments regarding viscosity?

[ January 07, 2004, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[moribundman]

Quite frankly, I wouldn't use any viscosity lower than mandated by the carmaker. Take BMW, some of their engines have serious problems with poorly wearing cam lobes and rod bearings, due to the soft material BMW uses. I know that there are BMW tuners, who will install hardened cams, and they still recommend oil that is on the thick end of what BMW recommends. Now, I'm not very familiar with BMW, but I do pick up info in a few places, and when it comes to German-made motors, it seems most fare better with thicker oil. I think it's a serious gamble to pour something thinner in than recommended.

Sure, oils have come a long way in terms of performance, but it's not like modern engines last longer than older designs. I don't think one can assume that an oil that works in a modern motor designed for a certain oil, will also perform well in an older design.

 

[BMW318tiCS]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
If you want to save money on gas buy cheaper gas or drive less. Walking, car pooling, and mass transit are far better ways to save gas then switching from XW30 to XW20. It is almost a funny as watching a guy order 10 cheesburgers, and apple pie and some frys for himself and then insisting on a diet Coke because he is watching his figure!

---

No it's not. It was just a question. Out of curiosity I wanted to draw on people's experience and expertise. So far the discussion was great, but your implication that I'm a cheap b@st@ard is out of bounds.

I've decided to try the Amsoil S2K 0W-30 next, if anyone's curious.

 

[quadrun1]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr. T:
True I'm guilty of that. That's because I hate seeing consumption. I've had consumption with 5-30 in every car I've owned or had experience with...from 1.6L Honda's to 2.3L Fords to 4.6 DOHC V-8's to 6.0 V-12's. New or old.

So I'll re-iterate A3 rated 30 weight should be a minimum standard for any engine (unless longevity is not desired). Moving up in grade concurrent with consumption.

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Certain engines (in Europe! no CAFE argument) require oils of a lower HT/HS viscosity, ie, A5.

What's the deal with your oil consumption?

I've never had ANY consumption with M1 5W-30 in these engines:

Ford 4.6L V8
Ford 5.0L V8
Honda 1.6L inline 4 (80,000 miles)
Honda 3.0L V6
SAAB 2.0L turbo 4 (205,000 miles)
BMW 2.5L inline 6

Heck, even the old '85 Cavalier didn't consume any oil... on bulk Valvoline 5W-30.

 

[Sin City]

quote:

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Quote from BMW318TiCS: I've decided to try the Amsoil S2K 0W-30 next, if anyone's curious.

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I think you have made a very good choice.

 

[Dr. T]

Yes, we've seen engines go 200k mi. on dino...but, by large they've done 3k OCI's...something NOT done in Europe or the rest of the world.

 

[moribundman]

quote:

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Certain engines (in Europe! no CAFE argument) require oils of a lower HT/HS viscosity, ie, A5.

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Those engines require lower HT/HS oil only if the car is on Long Life service intervals, which may be anywhere from 20 to 40k km. Oil with a higher HT/HS may be used if conventional oil change intervals are scheduled.

 

[Dr. T]

I also agree...if you do 1k OCI's, you won't get consumption.

For the rest of us, every single car I've seen or person I've spoken to will say the oil level goes down if you wait long enough...ie. about 5k mi. Those with OCI requested by the dash computer will have us run to 10k mi...you will have consumption (remember, this is where the oil level drops from max the level at which you first put it in))....

Otherwise, keep using the 99cent convenience store oil...I wish I could...

 

[quadrun1]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr. T:
I also agree...if you do 1k OCI's, you won't get consumption.

For the rest of us, every single car I've seen or person I've spoken to will say the oil level goes down if you wait long enough...ie. about 5k mi. Those with OCI requested by the dash computer will have us run to 10k mi...you will have consumption (remember, this is where the oil level drops from max the level at which you first put it in))....

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1k OCI, that's funny! Nope, the Honda 1.6L mentioned above has always used a 10,000 km OCI, while the BMW uses a 10,000 *mile* OCI (and formerly a 15,000 mile OCI)

Zero consumption on M1 5W-30!

 

[Dr. T]

Both Bror and my brother have 1.6L Civic engines that have used M-1 5-30 their whole life. Both have claimed oil consumption.

My brother say's he's always had it....Bror has mentioned getting it after 100k.