0w-20 and the SN rating

Wheel366 said:
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that NO 0W-20 would be considered GF6B. I thought it had to be 0W-16 or lower.

My source is here. https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/about-us/mobil-1/mobil-1-modern-engines/ilsac-gf-6 and https://pqia.org/2020/12/01/hmmm-is-it-an-ilsac-gf-6-a-or-b/.
Click to expand...

I guess Idemitsu does not agree because GF6B is clearly labeled on their bottle of 0W-20. And likely will be so on Castrol and Mobil products and the others as soon as they reprint all the labels for the next run of product bottles.
 
3x4X4 said:
Then what is the point of the ratings and certifications if not to show a particular product meets the specifications agreed upon by the auto/engine makers?

As to fuel economy, I do not see the "magic" there? If the fuel economy of one product is better than another similar product, then why is that? less operating friction? If so then does not that imply that there is less engine wear if there is less friction? Or is the improved fuel economy (if it actually is improved, I question that as well) due to some other phenomena as the viscosity is still 0W-20 of the products I am comparing?

I guess I am not really interested in good, better and best, only that the products all meet the same specifications that the auto makers claim are important to them and therefore are all equivilent? Or is the Mazda product really the "good stuff" and what exactly makes it so since it was said to be by at least one fellow (from another similar thread) and what documentation other than saying it has higher moly content shows it to be better at engine wear, fuel economy, or any other criteria other than moly ppm?
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The approvals, licenses and specifications the oil holds are what define the performance. Anything else is speculation, educated or otherwise.

HT/HS is going to be the largest determinant in fuel economy and that's what the blenders and automakers focus on when developing low viscosity oils.
 
3x4X4 said:
I guess Idemitsu does not agree because GF6 is clearly labeled on their bottle of 0W-20. And likely will be so on Castrol and Mobil products and the others as soon as they reprint all the labels for the next run of product bottles.
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Where does it say GF-6B or am I missing that? GF-6B has a minimum HT/HS of 2.3 unlike GF-6A which is minimum 2.9. A 20-grade oil cannot have that low of an HT/HS. Neither blender needs to make the distinction between A and B on their label since they are also displaying the grade.
 
kschachn said:
Where does it say GF-6B or am I missing that? GF-6B has a minimum HT/HS of 2.3 unlike GF-6A which is minimum 2.9. A 20-grade oil cannot have that low of an HT/HS. Idemitsu does not have to make the distinction between A and B on their label since they are also displaying the grade.
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Right here, big as Dallas ;):



What it does not say is anything about moly.

And then there is this, Castrol edge, which inludes Mazda on their label and is GF6:





I think I will just run the Castrol Edge for my early change and go from there with the dealer changes. Since other than arguments for moly ppm counts there is no evidence that Mazda 0W-20 is better than Castrol Edge 0W-20.
 
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kschachn said:
Where does it say GF-6B or am I missing that? GF-6B has a minimum HT/HS of 2.3 unlike GF-6A which is minimum 2.9. A 20-grade oil cannot have that low of an HT/HS.
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Picture of the back side of the Idemitsu jug. It does say 6B.

That’s confusing. One possibility is that their 0w20 is on the thinner side of most of that grade. I’m running it right now and it is thinner than I’m used to. I have to be quicker with the dipstick and paper towel lest it drip.
 
PimTac said:
That’s confusing. One possibility is that their 0w20 is on the thinner side of most of that grade. I’m running it right now and it is thinner than I’m used to. I have to be quicker with the dipstick and paper towel lest it drip.
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It's not possible for a 20-grade oil to have a low enough HT/HS to meet GF-6B.
 

Idemitsu 0W-20 | Idemitsu Lubricants

Idemitsu 0W-20 SP/GF-6 is a fully synthetic formulation with robust additive technology, enabling engines to achieve maximum levels of efficiency, torque and horsepower. Idemitsu 0W-20 helps extend engine life by minimizing wear and keeping the engine free of harmful deposits, delivering...
www.idemitsulubricants.com www.idemitsulubricants.com


Also, nobody puts moly composition on their labels.
 
kschachn said:
Oops, sorry. I was only reading the smaller text and missed the big stuff.

That is a misprint.
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What is a misprint?

If you mean that the 6B is a misprint then I am not sure I would trust a company that cannot get it's label certs correct. Kind of a big mistake if that is so.

I guess this is why there is an entire forum for oil discussions. If it were simple there would be no need.

And all this because the only thing Mazda states in their OM is ILSAC 0W-20, and oh, yeah, take it to the Mazda dealer to change the oil because they have Mazda oil which was inferred by some to mean it was the "good stuff" because it is higher moly ppm than other products (?) that meet the same ILSAC 0W-20 certification and other equal or higher certs (Castrol Edge 0W-20, Mobil 1 0W-20).
 
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From PQIA.com. The bottom line is GF-6B can only be a 0W-16, and is ONLY approved for vehicles specificity 0W-16. The API also says the bottle/jug of GF-6B is suppose to have a triangular shaped starburt symbol to look diffefent than the usual starburt symbol.

ILSAC GF-6A which covers SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 0W-30, SAE 5W-30, and SAE 10W-30

ILSAC GF-6B which covers only SAE 0W-16

Where ILSAC GF-6A is backward-compatible to previous categories, GF-6B (SAE 0W-16) is not.
 
3x4X4 said:
I guess Idemitsu does not agree because GF6B is clearly labeled on their bottle of 0W-20.
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That's wrong. No 0W-20 can be labled as GF-6B, because GF-6B is ONLY a 0W-16 spec, simply due to the visvosity.
 
3x4X4 said:
What is a misprint?

If you mean that the 6B is a misprint then I am not sure I would trust a company that cannot get it's label certs correct. Kind of a big mistake if that is so.

I guess this is why there is an entire forum for oil discussions. If it were simple there would be no need.

And all this because the only thing Mazda states in their OM is ILSAC 0W-20, and oh, yeah, take it to the Mazda dealer to change the oil because they have Mazda oil which was inferred by some to mean it was the "good stuff" because it is higher moly ppm than other products (?) that meet the same ILSAC 0W-20 certification and other equal or higher certs (Castrol Edge 0W-20, Mobil 1 0W-20).
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Well then I would suggest you don't. But I'm still confused a bit with the point of this thread.

You need to stop struggling with one being better than the other. The Mazda branded oil is suitable for this application and that is all you can really say with certainty. Inference is a poor decision making tool for oil choice.

And what's a "higher cert"? That does not make sense. What "cert" are you talking about?
 
3x4X4 said:
I am the fella from the other forum. I think the OP is somewhat misunderstanding me. This is what the manual says:

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All the manual really says is to use a "0W-20 oil certified for gasoline engines" - which there are many. That's about the loosest manual call out there is.
 
What approvals and specs are actually shown on a bottle of Genuine Mazda Oil ??
 
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